Gas lines over a mile long. Odd-Even gas days - based on the last digit of you license plate (this was before they started using letters in most states). Then gas prices went to over 99 cents and you either bought new pumps or you converted to liters.
Saigon was evacuated in April '75. I remember that as if it was yesterday. The memory still twists my gut in a knot. So much killing.
I remember also. I had been out of the Army for a couple years by then. I had been in Saigon a few times during my tour. That whole war was a mess.
@cdaquila The first crisis was in 1956 when the Suez Canal was first closed during the first Mid East war. That lasted about a year. There have been many of these crises since, and it always causes a gas spike.
This time, however, there is so much potential petroleum production everywhere that the loss of Iraq output will hardly be felt in the intermediate term.
In any case, US drivers should be aware that the long term trend is UP and shopping for a new car should tell anyone to buy a fuel-efficient model.
I just came back from a holiday in France and our car, a diesel Peugeot 5, took over $100 to fill up. Gas was $8 per gallon and diesel just under $7. Most of that is tax, of course. US fuel taxes are some of the lowest in the world, and Tom & Ray’s recommendation a few years back, of $0.50 tax per gallon still makes a lot of sense.
A gas guzzling SUV or truck will last 20 years. By that time you may need a bank loan to fill the tank!
I grew up in Ohio during the 73 oil “crisis” not seeing my father have any issue filling up at the local service station (just gas and auto service work, no beer or milk!). Ohio just didn’t see the long lines seen elsewhere. In '77, as a new driver, I saw a few lines during another small “crisis” but never had an issue filling up. I use the quotes because it seemed to be in the minds of drivers in some places. The midwest just seemed to calmer with a common sense attitude.
We’ve shifted to smaller vehicles, we buy very little oil from the middle east and we are producing more oil and gas in the US. Petroleum products will not affect us as much. The unrest in the middle east will affect us in other ways. As Al-Qaeda over-runs Iraq, our own security will be compromised by a group that is out to kill us because of how we worship rather than our political persuasion.
Was just curious whether there was anything notably different about the context, or whether people just adjust the same way no matter what. I do remember when gas dipped below a buck, at least in southern NH. It increased and stayed up, and now it seems like a fact of life. TSM’s déjà vu comment just made me wonder. Thanks.
Listening to the news this morning, a thought occurred to me regarding our involvement in the Middle East. I think we should respect the Monroe Doctrine and get out. We should shut down our embassies in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Yemen, and Libya, and not come back until those countries are stable enough for their governments to invite our diplomats back and protect them.
Let’s face facts; the only reason we have a presence in the Middle East is because of its strategic importance due to oil. Anyone who has paid attention to history knows that trying to control Middle East countries has been a mistake. We’ve removed democratically-elected leaders and replaced them with tyrants who were willing to cooperate with us. We’ve undermined democracy in the region, abandoning our principles in the interest of cheap oil. Our heavy-handed involvement and the blood on our hands has contributed to the instability we are seeing now in the region. No matter which side we back in the disputes in the region, it always manages to come back and bite us in the rear end.
Let’s stand back and let these people fight their own battles. Let their histories be written by them. They’re never going to learn to control their own destinies unless we let them, and if gas hits $5/gallon in the meantime, so be it. However, I don’t think that will happen. We’re producing more oil domestically than we have been in a long time, and the spikes we’re seeing in the price of gas are due more to speculation in the futures market than actual changes in the supply. Besides, it’s not in their interest to decrease oil production in the Middle East. We’ve seen that the market reacts to increases in fuel prices by reducing demand, which puts a market-based downward pressure on the price of fuel. For once I agree with Libertarians that the free market is the answer to this particular problem. Our government has no business giving tax breaks to Big Oil and it has no business subsidizing the price of fuel, because it keeps the free market from functioning as it should. Those tax breaks for Big Oil don’t keep the price of fuel down, they just line the pockets of their CEOs.
A significant gasoline tax would have been quite beneficial in my opinion. If $1 had been added 20 years ago the current used car market would be filled with reasonably sized and somewhat fuel efficient vehicles rather than gas guzzling SUVs.
@cdaquila, in my view, there are two main differences between the 1970s gas crisis and modern spikes in the price of fuel:
The car market is very different. Back when the fuel crisis happened in the 1970s, there were no small lightweight cars available, and when the Japanese automakers first came out with small cars, they weren’t very reliable. These days, we have all kinds of options for the fuel-conscious consumer, and those options are reliable quality-made vehicles.
We’re not rationing fuel. Even when we get a spike in fuel price, we’re not running out. It just costs more. Those gas lines were a nightmare.
So I guess the biggest difference is that modern fuel crises are much less traumatic overall, and the impact is more easily mitigated for those who can and do exercise good judgment in their vehicle purchases, making the brunt of this crisis fall on those who either can’t or won’t choose fuel efficient vehicles. I feel bad for those few who legitimately need large vehicles for their businesses and livelihoods though. They are the ones who really suffer when the price of fuel goes up.
Someone once pointed out that, when you adjust for inflation, even when gas was $4.12/gallon, it was cheaper than it was during WWII. Nostalgia for lower fuel prices of the past is usually seen through rose-colored glasses.
great question @cdaquila. I m here because of the wisdom the older members of this forum have and their willingness to share what they have learned from the history they have lived. I have been critical of some of the choices thisforum has made, because i felt they have limited this flow of knowledge and experience.
i don’t go to bars any more but i used to get the same thing there. a few years ago, if you went to the right bar, right after work (3 30 for us that started at 5am) you could get an hour or so with the WW II veterans before the rowdies came in.
but then i read ben franklin and Winston Churchill and the bible and Icelandic sagas for fun, so i m kinda weird :). which reminds me that i have to get glasses, what a drag it is getting old
i hope you haven t taken any of my criticisms personally
my '75 ford has only averaged about 500 miles a year for the last few years. its hardly worth the insurance to keep it but its nice to have a truck when i need it. i can repair it myself and its paid for.
The futures market trading does explain the seemingly paradoxical movement of prices without an apparent shortage of oil. I know that production is happening much more widely, too, thus changing the landscape. People are also able to make different vehicle choices.
I do want to gently suggest we not get into a straight-up debate/discussion of US involvement in the Mideast, though I do recognize that the political climate there does undoubtedly influence the oil market. Thanks.
its funny that some of the people who are most vociferous about sticking to car themes are the ones who often stray into other arenas.
that gas prices were higher during world war 2 is no big surprise. there was a world war going on.
I know of no one who remembers world war 2 with fond nostalgia
@cdaquila, I figured our involvement in the Middle East was both relevant to the topic of this thread and relevant to discussion of automobiles since it’s where a lot of our fuel comes from. I think there is almost universal agreement that we’re involved in the Middle East because of our huge appetite for energy as a country. Around here, it’s not usually a controversial issue.
I figured our involvement in the Middle East was both relevant to the topic of this thread and relevant to discussion of automobiles since it's where a lot of our fuel comes from.
Our involvement in the Middle East is for one thing OIL. The war in Iraq was for Oil. It was PROVEN to have nothing to do with WMD’s.
@whitey, I know. I’m not shutting it down outright…and I do recognize that the politics and production are inextricably linked. And, as a side note, my suggestion isn’t so much about the subject being controversial, as there are other things that get discussed that are far less divisive but nonetheless are outside the themes of the forum. For now things are OK.
Just another manufactured excuse for the oil companies to price gouge us even more at the pump.
I remember when I was a kid gas prices stayed relatively stable, except for a short time during the “73” gas “crisis”,but now it seems like any excuse will do to raise prices.
We had some record setting hurricanes when I was a kid and the gas prices never fluctuated, but now if there is a bad thunderstorm within a 1,000 miles of a refinery they jack the prices up claiming production was affected by the bad weather.
In 2013 the united states was ranked number 3 in worldwide oil production,unfortunately the oil companies create artificial shortages (and higher prices) by exporting most of that instead of using it for domestic consumption.
Why do they export it? because the oil companies make a lot more money exporting it to countries where people are paying $8 a liter for gasoline rather than sell it domestically for $3.50 a gallon or less.
There is NO shortage of oil,there MIGHT be a shortage of refinery capacity but if there is it`s because the oil companies want it that way.
When Obama was running for president the first time he said, america needs $5 a gallon gas to encourage greener technology reduce pollution,and it looks like he got together with the oil companies to try and make that $5 a gallon a reality.
First off I disagree that you have to have lived through a crisis to learn from it. I didn’t see the depression or WWII but learned about gas shortages, rationing, food shortages, tire shortages, etc. I learned how they planned, coped, and dealt with it.
The 73 shortage wasn’t really a shortage at all but a political issue. Outside of how to cope individually, as a nation we learned to never allow outside forces to control oil supplies. So now we have other options such as the strategic reserve, Canada, and Alaska. I wish we could learn the same lession for other strategic items such as steel and electronics.
I believe in being self reliant and prepared for emergencies so my cars never have less than 1/2 tank. I always have a gas can for the mower and generator if needed. Bad weather and shortages should be expected and I try to impart preparedness on the younger people in my life as well as my peers. Some listen some don’t.
We’ve been actively involved in the middle east as far back as I can remember, mainly due to their proximity to the old USSR and now to Russia. They’re in a highly strategic location.
There are a few competing theories on why we went to Iraq, including vengeance. It’s’ believed that the shah tried to have Bush Sr. assassinated. Personally, I believed from time zero that going into Iraq was a mistake. Even if they were developing WMDs, they were an autonomous country. We should have learned in Viet Nam that we cannot invade an autonomous independent country militarily and expect a positive outcome unless we are prepared to stay there forever.
Afghanistan was clear. An Afghani supported terrorist organization had attacked our country. If I could have, I would have reenlisted to fight that war. Nobody attacks my country without suffering for it. Of course, things have changed now…
mountain, I believe that you meant saddam, not the shah.
mike, of course it s about oil. it s also about nuclear arms and Israel. and as mountain said, revenge for the assassination attempt on bush the elder.
now, whether we admit it or not, its about saving western civilization from the caliphate, desired by many muslims.
if Abdullah Abdullah is elected in Afghanistan we have a chance for a true ally in the fight against the Taliban and al quaeda