I suspect the crank damage, assuming there is any, is from the interference of the debris not allowing unrestricted full throw on the piston assembly. The bearings would take the brunt but eventually the crank could be damaged.
I see a number of reflections from the piston damage on the walls, but walls seem to be intact, at least on the pictures OP posted. Hone-lines seem to be visible, no vertical lines.
To myself I thought âwow⊠looks like thatâs not that bad and may be relatively cheap to fixâ.
Still, these are not great pictures, so more inspection would be needed.
Conceivably, the oil pan can be removed, then a single piston can be pushed out and replaced.
I zoomed in and clearly saw several significant gouges and nicks on the cylinder
I know what I saw
You know what you saw
This is a good example of two people looking at the same pictures, yet not seeing the same thing, or arriving at different conclusions. Phrase it how you like . . .
This one is a definite suspect, I agree:
Here too, mot likely the same one:
For the rest, every single light-colored âpatchâ has a symmetrical light-colored area on the piston.
So, as I said earlier:
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Page 421 of the owners manual for a 2013 F-150 states that the spark plug change interval is 100,000 miles. Unless someone changed the spark plugs early for some reason, these are the factory installed plugs. Ford canât weasel out of that one.
All the parts in that engine are bought parts, not made by Ford. Using their logic, if a rod cap bolt broke, they could say that it is not a warrantable part because they didnât make it. In addition, does the warranty specifically say that spark plugs are not covered? Is there an extensive list of parts not covered?
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I think the problem is the service director at opâs specific Ford dealership
A service manager at another dealer may have a different attitude
The service manager has a lot of influence, as to how the service/warranty department proceeds
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OK, thank you all for all of your replies. Very grateful to hear from people who know far more than I about engines in general. Lots of good points. Iâve been following all day but havenât had the chance to reply as I was at work.
As far as the Spark Plug not being warrantable, yes, thereâs a list of stuff not covered, and it is on it. I read it more of like a list of parts that they wouldnât cover replacing if it wore out, not equipment that could damage the engine and therefore void your warranty.
Regarding some of the more recent comments, how would I get a different mechanic to look at this? Do I have it towed to another Ford Dealership 75 miles away?
If it is going to be warranty work, it probably needs to be done by a dealership right?
Can I tell them to just put it back together and let me drive it?
Thatâd probably cost more in labor to put it back together than it was worth right?
Iâm pretty sure Iâm going to take the truck elsewhere, get a second opinion, etc. But how do I do this without paying an arm and a leg to the dealership who did nothing so far but tear my engine apart and screw me over with the warranty folk?
Expect to pay more than $2,000 for labor and $1,000 for parts to assemble the engine. It would be more practical to find a shop that will install a used engine.
It is not that simple, warranty coverage is not up to the dealer, did you speak with the extended warranty division about the warranty coverage? Did the dealer call in the warranty claim? Generally for repairs over $500 the warranty company will send an inspector to examine the failure, after the failure is documented and photographed, the warranty company makes a decision. The dealer technician and service writer are stuck in the middle, they would rather get paid for the warranty work than lose the job.
I would not tow the truck to another shop, or have anyone else work on it. And I certainly would not pay this dealer thousands of dollars to put the engine back together. I would contact an attorney who specializes in consumer protection law ASAP.
As I have already pointed out, it is far more likely that a problem with the engine caused the spark plug to break apart than that the spark plug itself was defective or damaged upon installation (which apparently was when the truck was built some 6 years and 80,000 miles ago.) Also, I am not sure that Ford can legally disclaim liability for engine damage (allegedly) caused by its original equipment spark plug before the recommended replacement interval has been reached. Certainly, the original factory warranty would cover any consumable part, as well as any damage resulting from the failure of a consumable part provided that the first replacement interval has not been reached.
The factory warranty expired long ago, extended warranties are not comprehensive warranties, they are not the same as factory warranties.
While this is all labeled as âFordâ,. the extended warranties are with the finantial division, not the manufacturing and new sale division. It may seem to be all one operation but these have different warranty coverage.
The operative word being âapparentlyâ. Because you cannot prove they are original nor that they were never removed in the past 6 years since they were installed. Likelihood is not going to cut it once the rubber meets the road. It canât be proven and one could easily argue that the potential for a spark plug to be removed by someone in that time frame is just as likely to have occurred.
No, there are a number of consumable parts not covered by the manufacturer. The easy one- look at your tire warranty. Those are installed by the vehicle manufacturer but the tire manf warranties the part.
Iâm on your side, I would feel the same way. But getting them to own up is going to be an uphill battle, especially since it isnât even the original warranty anymoreâŠ
Trying to avoid paying is SOP for extended warranty companies. The times Iâve dealt with them has never been pleasant. They were either looking for me to give them a reason why they should not pay or they wanted it slopped together for a few hundred dollars.
One inspector had the audacity to tell me they would pay 4 or 5 hundred dollars to âpatch togetherâ as he called it, a grenaded Subura transmission. Cases split in two, ring and pinion missing teeth. countershaft and mainshaft wiped, etc. He even suggested I use JB Weld to glue the ring and pinion teeth back on along with gluing the broken case halves together.
HUH, to me,that pic of the sparkplug shows a complete sparkplug, not even the porcelain is damaged, but the the gap is closed.
I think that, the engine digested some other part. The side elektrode would not be able to make such an imprint neither in the piston nor the valves.
OP, go to the shop and on the way there, buy a new spark plug and look at the old one from your engine and the new one. Look for differences and missing parts. To me, it looks as the s.plug is not the problem.
Btw, here in Europe, Ford has had severe problems in the early 00âs with some flaps in the intake manifold breaking up, but that was on 4 and 6 cyl. engines. I have no clue whether Your engine has a similar system or not.
Do not tow your truck out of there just yet
Do not pay them to put it back together
Either contact the zone rep/regional manager
Or lawyer up
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Wow. Not sure how Iâd respond to that aside from the initial laughter. Youâd think the person tasked with that job would have at least some basic mechanical competency. Where does a suggestion like that even come from? The ignorance is astoundingâŠ
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Of course, and this is why people on these boards always say to NEVER buy a third-party âextended warrantyâ. However, this is not a third-party âextended warrantyââthis is a Certified Pre-Owned extended warranty, sold by the manufacturer itself, and is no doubt marketed as being substantially similar to the original factory warranty. The eligibility for this coverage is a major reason why someone would purchase a CPO vehicle in the first place, and to justify the higher selling price for a CPO versus the same model just as a regular used car.
It would be disingenuous at best to compare a third-party âextended warrantyâ which most people know are garbage to the special coverage which a manufacturer offers for its CPO vehicles.
So the Ford extended warranty and any other 3rd party warranty company will use the same excuse,What makes Ford better when theyâre doing the same thing any other warranty company would do?
CPO does not mean much to me at all. Pre-Delivery Inspections (a.k.a. PDI) and CPO inspection are supposed to be done by a trained competent mechanic. At one multi-line dealer where I worked not one of us ever got our hands on a PDI or CPO inspection. That brings up the ? of whoduunit.
The who were the 2 guys in the detail bays who cleaned up cars and barely knew how to change oil.
Did your Ford get this treatment? I have no idea.
Sometimes a trained competent mechanic will get screwed over on a job. Mechanics know what Iâm talking about. That leads to âget evenâ thoughts which might mean checking the tires, turning on the lights, and beeping the horn. Voila; quick pencil whipped CPO inspection. Just sayinââŠ
JB weld can hold about anything. Once had a F250 460 engine freeze up over a cold fall night and put a crack in the block and popped out a frost plug. JB weld fixed it. Ran it for years after, even on a trip over 1000 miles away. Never caused a prob.
Youâll find no bigger fan of JB Weld than me. I have been using it for 40 years. That being said, check back with me when youâve glued ring and pinion gears back together and successfully ran them. The first time you press the gas pedal, they will be stripped back offâŠComparing the stress on a frost plug or block crack in that area to the stress on ring and pinion gears is apples to neutron bombsâŠ
The inspector who first told me to glue the ring and pinion together has originally asked how much to put it back togetther; about 4 or 5 hundred dollars? Nope, a new transmission at 5 grand. He started griping about highway robbery and I said fine; go to the part dept and price it yourself. Iâve been through this before.
He was outraged and said no way would they pay for it. Unknown to him, the car ownerâs brother was an attorney who came down on them pretty hard. They paid.
In regard to the OP, I think heâs between a rock and rock. I am curious about one thing that I hope he clarifies. He mentions it running rough before taking it in. I wonder how long it was running rough, if the CEL was on and flashing, etc.
A lawyer could send them a letter for a few hundred bucks. Fordâs building of lawyers on retainer will have their secretary fire off a standard form letter saying nothing. At that point the OPâs lawyer would say itâs going to cost a fortune to even begin this. Say a 10 grand retainer just to start the ball rolling.
If it were me I would service the head on that cylinder and slap it back together as mentioned previously.
Thatâs the cheapest out and it could very well run just fine for who knows how long.Iâve seen cobbled together stuff worse than that which turned out well.
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