I did the first change of pink coolant in my Toyota early at 5 years.
Did the second change recently after another 5 yrs, also changed the thermostat & radiator cap.
Coolant looked as good as new each time.
I change the brake fluid every 3 years. Non ABS.
I do a full change of the power steering fluid every 5 years.
The same folks that call it a lifetime fluid are not the ones that said change it at 100,000 miles.
in my opinion, whoever listens to the manufacturers that say trans fluid and antifreeze are lifetime or good for 100K, deserves to get stranded. Look up camry 2014 transmission fluid change. At 85K, the poster says “the fluid looks like someone took a sh*t in it”. I agree. I have a new 2015 Rav 4 and will change my trans fluid at 10K at most (9K on the car now). These fluids take a beating and should be changed a lot sooner than what they recommend. Changing the antifreeze takes an hour at most and a kid can do it. My trans is the new sealed type and it’s a pain to change (no dipstick) but I’m going to attempt it next week. They have some 14 page bulletin saying no average joe can change it etc. and then after some flack, put out a bulletin saying to just drain and refill with what comes out. I intend to do that and watch the overflow tube. people are just lazy and trust the dealer way too much. I read on the net a person listened to BMW and didn’t change the trans fluid for 100K and the trans dropped out on the freeway. I change my oil (synthetic) between 2500 and 3000 miles, trans/antifreeze every 7-10K. It’s worth the money and time.
Honda recommended changing transmission fluid at 90,000 miles and draining/refilling 3 times to get all the old fluid out. I do it at about 30,000 and just drain once. A small amount of old fluid remains, but almost all of the fluid is new every 30,000 miles. The car is a 2005 Accord EX V6 with auto trans.
Sorry, 10K trans fluid changes are way overboard.
30k at least, I bet there would be no problem in 99% of cases with 50k.
Just like motor oils, transmission fluids have gotten way better. Transmissions don’t deal with combustion gasses so the fluid stays much cleaner than motor oil. What the fluid looks like, smells like, or tastes like is not the issue. It only matters if the fluid is able to perform its job in the transmission. I have been using 100,000 miles for drain and fill intervals for the last 10 years in “lifetime fluid” situations and transmissions have all been working fine with no failures and no signs of any deterioration in shifting. This is heresy to some of you but I sleep fine at night, spend less on maintenance, and help keep the environment cleaner.
Every time this topic is discussed, it’s clear that opinions are all over the map on when fluids should be changed. And no one can say that any of those opinions are wrong, as they are shaped by each one’s experiences.
I contend that the majority of car owners who keep their cars for 100K-150K miles, who change their oil when the auto manufacturer says to, and who don’t tow and never change their transmission fluid, never have a problem.
Years ago the “Shade Tree Mechanic” boys from Nashville’s TNN advised viewers that regardless of what the owner’s manual said, the recommended 50,000 miles between transmission fluid changes and coolant replacement.
At that time there were no specific answers in the owners’ manuals and transmission fluids did not need changing “under normal driving conditions”. These were sales gimmicks and AAMCO loved them.
So that now we have much improved coolant and transmission fluids I would still stick with those recommendations most of the time. The only exception being prolonged highway driving such as in sales jobs where there is minimal demand on the transmission.
I would also add 5 years intervals for those who don’t drive much.
@JoeMario: “I contend that the majority of car owners who keep their cars for 100K-150K miles, who change their oil when the auto manufacturer says to, and who don’t tow and never change their transmission fluid, never have a problem.”
I would take that a step further, and say that anyone who only keeps their cars for 100K-150K miles is either foolish, has enough money that saving money on cars doesn’t matter, or has some other overwhelming concern driving the decision, like a death in the family or loss of a job. With advances in manufacturing and fluids, 200K is the new 100K, and most vehicles should be able to make it to the 200K mark without any major problems.
20-30 years ago, it made sense to get rid of cars with only 100K-150K. To do so now would be similar to trading in a car that only has 50K-75K miles in 1990.
I think most folks don’t own their cars for 200k+, so I guess most folks are foolish…
During 47 years of marriage we have had 13 new cars, 4 new pickups and I guess we qualify for the Foolish club. I do think that there are 17 used vehicle buyers that were pleased.
The highest miles I was able to pull out of a car was 180K miles from a Dodge Minivan and even then when I did the math, I was better off selling it at 100K miles. My current ride (Camry), has close to 155K miles, needs suspension, probably a VVT gear/timing chain and lacks in a lot of safety features. I am keeping it for now, but I don’t think I am going to sink large sums of money on any of the above issues. Sometimes you have to factor in the down time/inconvenience factor too.
@Whitey I have a book called “Drive it Forever” by Bob Sikorsky of Tucson, AZ published in 1997. He started the 100,000 mile club with readers who got 100,000 miles from their cars without doing any internal engine work. He was a strong advocate of frequent oil changes and using engine block heaters. He had a square box Volvo which had 300,000 miles on the engine at the time; quite doable if you take good care of it in Tucson. No mention of what else the Volvo needed.
I wrote him that I had already owned 3 cars that exceeded 100,000 miles without internal engine work (a water pump on a small block Chevy is EXTERNAL), and he seemed somewhat deflated. My point to him was that I was into COST EFFECTIVE maintenance rather than setting some kind of record. I’ve kept his little book which sold for $14.95 at the time to remind myself of the massive improvements we have made in quality.
This guy was a weekly car care columnist to a New York paper, while living in Tucson. Go figure.
And @VolvoV70 Yes, having been married nearly 50 years and having had a car since 1958, we have had 13 cars, 3 of which were bought new and have been a 2 car family since 1972. A total of 15 cars should be a lifetime supply if managed well.
With all the money we saved we have travelled a lot; I’ve been to 33 countries at the last count. My wife to a few less.
Average miles driven per year is tough to get because it varies by age group:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm
Although the average is 13.4K/year, it does have a large stddev.
Several sites do talk about how long people hold on to their new cars. It seems 6.5 years is the norm, (up from 4.3 years in 2006).
Here’s one link with that info:
So with only about 5 minutes of searching, it feels it’s a reasonable assumption to say the majority of people keep their cars for 100K-150K miles.
You can’t really look at the average age of a car on the roads today, which is over 10 years, because the cars likely will have had multiple owners.
I have stepped up my mileage usage from about 80k to my current 120k. And I regret dumping the Passat at 120k. Perhaps this one (Forester) will go for 200k?
@Docnick, what a great gig: live in Tuscon and write a syndicated column that is published in NY. It was probably published elsewhere, too.
@jtsanders I don’t know how he answered corrosion problems his readers voiced. A square box Volvo in the Sonora desert will outlive nearly anything.
I now have a number of convert friends who believe a well maintained quality car is good for at least 250,000 miles. One of my cars, a 1984 Impala V8 was given to my son in 1995, I believe with about 200,000 miles on it. He sold it in 2004 with about 300,000+ miles on the clock. No internal engine work had been done, but the body showed some rust. He got $750 for it…
Hondas and Toyotas will run economically for at least 300,00 miles before the repairs make it uneconomic to keep them.
My oldest sister, a retired accountant, keeps one “good/newer” car and one older one, which used to be the newer one. The older one is “run into the ground”, so to speak. She has calculated this is the most economical way to drive. She does not buy and sell cars like CSA, who will likely claim there is a cheaper way. Since 1955 the family has owned only 10 cars, all bought new. With a dealership in the family she always got a real deal.
My sister also does not believe in driving an unsafe or dangerous car. She does live in a jurisdiction that does not have annual emission tests, and cars are only inspected when they change owners.
June 24 The highest miles I was able to pull out of a car was 180K miles from a Dodge Minivan and even then when I did the math, I was better off selling it at 100K miles.
Unless your vehicle had a lot of maintenance issues (which is possible) then you missed something in your calculation.
A Dodge minivan does not have the same “genes” as a Toyota or Honda minivan. Having said that, I still believe 200,000 miles for a Dodge minivan is possible, but expect some things to fall off and have to be replaced.
I agree with @MikeInNH that 100,000 miles today is less than the typical economic half life, and only a real lemon would need to be sold at that mileage.
Many owners confuse the “nuisance factor” with economics of operation. When some judgement is required to do a repair, many are scared into trading shortly afterwards and made to believe that the first repair is the end of the road. In industry equipment is often continuously rebuilt, and there are 60 year old Waukesha gas engines operating in oil field service that have been rebuilt a dozen times.
Unless you keep track of every dollar spent on a car, you will not have a good picture as to when it’s best to say goodbye. The fact that Americans trade cars at 6.5 years may be a good thing, since 2/3 of the population cannot afford to buy new cars, or don’t qualify for financing. For those, a used car is the only choice. Cars change hands 3 times typically, the last owner often a student or first time driver whose parents want to start the new driver off with a disposable vehicle.
Whatever arguments are made on this forum, few are backed up by accurate cost figures and are heavily laced with opinion.
I’m sure Mike has kept track of costs, along with a few others.
Many owners confuse the "nuisance factor" with economics of operation.
Every time my GMC pickup crapped out on me it was more then a nuisance. I was doing consulting at the time. And for every hour I had to spend nursing my pickup to get me to and from work I wasn’t getting paid. I lost a few thousand dollars in earnings. in just 2 months.