Bscar,
the extended warranty is administered by “American Honda Finance Corporation”.
You’re saying that Honda scams its customers?
To clarify, the shop is an accredited car mechanic place, not a Jiffy Lube etc. Let’s not assume the car shop is in the wrong for any mechanical failure. I’d be happy to supply their name and number if you’d like to check out their credentials. But, no one is asking for your credentials so let’s keep this civil okay?
When you say actual damage, again (I feel like I’m repeating myself here)…isn’t a seized cam and broken timing belt considered damage?
Can you answer this from an earlier post?
What I don’t understand is, and no one has explained…is that aside from the dry dipstick, why didn’t the engine show a lack of lubrication to the Honda Inspector?
To clarify again, the only dashlight that came on in the beginning was the malfunction lamp light. There was no physical indication that the car was in trouble. (no smoke, no noises etc…)
Do you suggest I tell the shop to put it back together with a new timing belt, oil and cam shaft and see how it runs? If the engine showed no lack of lubrication, wouldn’t that just cover up any real problems the engine had (which caused the engine to seize in the first place) If the shop can’t diagnosis the problem-again, the Honda Inspector could not find any indication there was lack of lubrication in the engine-then couldn’t there be other problems in the engine? Shouldn’t I replace the whole motor just to be sure?
I’m fine with replacing what needs to be replaced, especially if they can’t find what’s wrong with it. It just seems suspect to band aid it.
Are we sure the engine seized up? or did the timing belt just brake? How many miles on that belt?
EllyEllis,
The car is 3 years old and has never had problems. So I’m assuming since I have 64k on the car, that’s how many miles are on the belt.
Was the cam “seized” when the timing belt cover was removed? Or does the cam rotate normally now? None of us know these things. We can argue about mechanical minutia all night, but the only people who really KNOW are the mechanics that are working on the engine.
“Malfunction lamp came on. Checked fuel cap. Lamp stayed on. Next day, VSA light came on. Called Honda, made appt. Got in the car to drive to appt, car wouldn’t start. 2006 Honda Pilot.”
The car was running Ok when you parked it, right? Then it simply would not start. I have no clue what a “VSA” light is…Doesn’t sound like anything “seized up” to me…
Before I spent 3 or 4 grand on a new engine, I would at least stick a timing belt on it and try to get it running…You have to start someplace…
There are many skilled mechanics, both professional and amateur that post answers to questions on this board. Many have been here for years. We are pretty much self-regulating, but when someone posts bogus information, the hammer comes down pretty quick as others correct the situation. You do not know any of us, but we all know each other and we are not afraid to call a weak hand. Many of us have been in the automotive industry for a long time and we know how things work, what will fly and what will not. You have stated your viewpoint the best you can, what you see in the replies is the viewpoint from the other side…Loose drain plugs, puddles of oil, no oil in crankcase, you won’t get much sympathy here…
The camshafts run in the aluminum journals without bearings and lubrication to the head is restricted by a small metering plug. The first thing to fail when the oil pump begins to pick up air and pump foam is the camshaft, which seizes and causses the engine to stall. When the oil warning light comes on it is likely too late.
At this point, inspection of the main and rod bearings and pistons is necessary and if not damaged the head can be line bored (better to replace) and the camshaft replaced and all other parts inspected. It sounds as though the dealer is attempting to do what is best to make the car “whole” again.
Once upon a time we stopped for gas and a nice man would fill the tank and clean the windshield and check under the hood. We are too busy and too cheap now. We want self service/pay at the pump. Luckily cars need much less attention now… Usually.
I appreciate your feedback.
When the mechanic took the car apart as stated in earlier posts (I put detail in what he took apart) he could not see any oil loss problems. Could not see where lack of oil would have caused the issue.
I keep asking and no one answers…If the mechanics could not find any lubrication problems in the engine, then what? What if the oil leaked out over night?
No one has answered this question either. How long would it take for the oil to leak out of the car if there was a loose drain plug? I drove it 3k from last oil change.
I dont’ know exact details about cam, all I was told is that the cam was “stuck, seized” whatever.
The car was running fine until the VSA light came on, or maybe its just coincidence that the light came on and the engine wouldn’t run.
Sequence goes a little like this…:
Day 1-malfunction lamp lights up. checked fuel cap, tightened it etc…
Day 2-malfunction lamp light still on, car runs normally.
Day 3-started car, VSA light came on, pulled car out of garage and it “shuddered down the driveway”. put car back in garage turned it off. read manual.
Day 4-started car to take to the dealership-car wouldn’t start.
Now, maybe there might be another day between 1 and 2, but the car ran with the malfunction light on for no more then 2-3 days before the physical problems came up.
Other posts I’ve read in other forums say that for an engine to be out of oil it will exhibit some pretty hefty warning signs. Noises, smoke, etc.
What’s your opinion?
Since I had no visual clue the car needed oil, I argued that point.
When is the last time you pulled the dip stick and checked the oil level yourself?
Thanks for your reply Rod.
A previous responder contradicted what you wrote. he said:
In all fairness, I must tell you that in an engine running with little or no oil pressure, the cams and valve gear would be the last thing to suffer damage
Whitey,
I’m sorry, but we’ve been way past that question. Please read the comments.
Thank you.
Today…I own 6 vehicles…One of them almost always needs a quart of oil…
You may find it interesting, but right now on this board there are 3 or 4 threads running dealing with cars that were run without any oil, for one reason or another. Use the "search feature and enter “No Oil” and see that you are by no means alone…
More grist for the mill…The suspect oil change was 3000 miles ago and the plug just now got loose and started leaking?? You will have a hard time hanging this on them…
As an added bonus, if the engine “jumped time” there is a possibility, in keeping with Honda tradition, that the valves hit the pistons and bent some of them…A competent shop can quickly determine if this is the case…
Welcome to the wild world of asking questions of well-meaning, but (necessarily) uniformed strangers. Without the engine in front of us there is nothing we can do but speculate. Use the ‘mechanic finder’ function on this web site if you want an additional hands-on opinion. Just remember that if they think it was caused by low oil, you’ll need a first-hand opinion from a qualified eye-witness. We are all trying to apply our experience to your descriptions, a difficult thing to do.
But it is a good example of why extended warranties are a low-value product. Their goal is to deny service, and here they may have a good reason/excuse.
The cam is under very little load and will run for hours without damage to the journals as long as a little oil is present. The cam lobes will suffer damage first, galling, steel against steel. but even that would take a half hour. Mechanics have inspected the valve gear and found nothing wrong…The only FACTS stated was that the engine had “jumpted time”…Nothing was found “seized up”, including the cams.
Check your warranty paperwork to see exactly whats covered. If your paperwork specificly states that it would cover the oil pressure sender then a failed engine due to oil starvation would be covered. You can prove that the light is not working, the technician saw it himself. I have dealt with many warranty companies when I was at the dealership and back then this would not be covered. Check your paperwork real good to see what is and is not covered.
transman
I’m not familiar with your oil system jacinta2030, but I am familiar with that of a late 80’s ranger. The oil level indicator light comes on when it it roughly 1quart down. I’m guessing from yours not illuminating that you have an oil PRESSURE sensor not an oil LEVEL sensor. Or maybe your dash light was burnt out. does it turn on for 3-5 sec when you turn the ignition to the on position? I had a 93 civic and Found out the hard way it had an oil leak and the oil PRESSURE light didn’t come on until it started sucking air (air doesn’t lubricate well.) Result: Immediately shut off engine and walked to auto parts store bought 4qt of oil and filled it up. Engine only took 4qt… you do the math… I was starving it for oil for who knows how long. I was luck enough not to have torched the engine. Now I check my oil level every-other fill up. It’s a good habit to have.
Caddyman, I agree with you, that;s why I came back to this post to add to the discussion.
I am not a certified mechanic but I have been keeping my own (and others) cars running for 60 yeara. This is my opinion; The timing belt slipped (not from a seized cam) and caused the engine to not start. Maybe 1 1/2 quart of oil was enough to keep oil pressure. The idiot light only comes on when there is no oil pressure. The warning light comes on before the engine is ruined. When you lose the oil pressure surely you would hear the valve lifters rattling. I would put it back together, fill it with oil and coolant, TIGHTEN the drain plug, and just perhaps it is not ruined. You said the tow truck driver and the mechanic could not see any light on, well they couldn’t check that, they couldn’t start the engine.
Thank you Caddyman!
Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make with Honda. How could a loose plug take 3 months to drain a car of all its oil? That is what Honda is telling me, that the car lost all its oil because a mechanic didn’t tighten the plug. My response to them was exactly what I wrote above. The service tech at Honda said, “Yep, I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen it take months before the car drained of all its oil”. All mechanics I’ve talked to from Bob Summeral on down the food chain say that’s hard to believe.