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Elon Musk should start worrying about his next rival

This is going to be very interesting to watch. Since they’re targeting a wealthy clientele with this car, they’ll have more resources to explore new developmental options. Although I haven’t seen anything suggesting this, I have to wonder if they’ll end up working with Tesla on the power source. Tesla now has a facility to produce and further develop lithium-ion arrays for automotive use, and they’re indisputably the leader in the field.

I’ve liked Porsches since the days of the 912. I even liked the 914s (test drove one many years ago) and the 944 versions. There’s no doubt in my mind that this will be an incredible vehicle.

I know in the early days, we used to thumb our noses at the idea of an electric car. Wimpy! Nothing like the growl of a big block or the whine of a small block at high RPMs (insert Tim Allen noises here). But I truly believe that in the not too distant future, people will look back on ICE cars like they did the early electric prototypes.

Now, the prospect of a torque monster with only the whine of traction motors and power electronics to belie it’s true potential are what interest me the most. I will always have fond memories of RWD, big engine cars and the smell of partially burned hydrocarbons. But give me a neck snapping electric that can go 300 miles on a charge and be ready again in 15 minutes and I’ll jump ship in a heartbeat.

The fact they say their customers need/want this engine roar to be carried forward is ridiculous to me. If you want that, use your stereo to get it. I understand the need to warn pedestrians, especially seeing and hearing impaired but I believe you will have no trouble hearing one of these coming… :sunglasses:

I agree. How much of the noise that a car makes going down the road actually comes from the engine anyway? You’re still going to have tire and wind noise, which is quite significant at highway speeds.
Then there’s also gear train noise and electric motors are not necessarily silent.

Highways aren’t the problem. But I can testify from experience that in a clean smooth parking lot you absolutely cannot hear a Tesla with Low Rolling Resistance tires rolling behind you.

I’ll take the word of sight-impaired people that they cannot hear EVs coming down the road in parking lots and at in-town speeds in time to react. I would never insult them by second-guessing them on this. Those of us without this disability have no business second-guessing them, and I would not deny them this safety margin. Artificially generated engine sounds are a small price to pay to help them stay safe.

Frankly, those of us who can hear discussing what blind people can and cannot hear is, IMHO, not only completely insensitive, but perhaps even downright arrogant. Nothing personal against anybody, but we have no business even debating the danger of EVs to blind pedestrians. Let’s just listen to what they’re telling us and try to accommodate their needs as best we can.

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You can have the last word, if it pleases you


Do you not believe blind people when they say they cannot hear Teslas in city traffic and parking lots well enough to feel safe?

Do you not believe Elon Musk when he says that he’s trying to create a car for the middle class with the Model 3?

Those questions are what it really comes down to.

Man, don’t get bent out of shape . . . !

I agree with you that Elon Musk is targeting the middle class with the Model 3

As for people not being able to hear Teslas approaching, yes, I’ve heard that before

I never said I didn’t believe any of that stuff

Now who’s making assumptions . . . ?


Sound affects must be important to the video game generation, manufactures are already enhancing the sound of their vehicles.

Lexus Active Sound Control;

(a) An ASC (Active Sound Control) system has been adopted. A stereo component equalizer assembly generates electrical driving sound based on signals such as the vehicle speed and accelerator pedal depression angle.

(b) Electrical driving sound is output from the No. 1 speaker with box assembly to the cabin via a power amplifier that is built into the stereo component equalizer assembly.

© The driving operation of the vehicle is fed back to the driver by sounds. This helps realize a sense of oneness between the vehicle and the driver and thus enhances the “fun-to-drive” aspect.

“oneness between the vehicle and the driver . . .”

For pity’s sake . . . !


Whatever happened to putting a playing card in the spokes?


It’s not this specific Porsche that is a threat to Tesla. Porsche/Audi/VW is using this high dollar, low production vehicle to test out the new technologies. Once they iron out the bugs, the technology will migrate downward eventually reaching the masses through the VW line. Will Tesla survive when that happens?

Tesla is ahead in the game right now, but Porsche/Audi/VW has much deeper pockets. Tesla will probably survive because they will supply the batteries, at least at first.

As for gyroscope precession of flywheels. That is easy to overcome. You mount the flywheel on a gymbal and attach a motor/generator to the flywheel. Then the flywheel can precess anyway it wants. The problem would be if a heavy flywheel spinning at upwards of 60,000 rpm gets uncaged in an accident. That will be a lot of energy running around loose.

Tesla has already made quite a name for itself

Right now, I’d say Tesla’s image is quite positive . . . unlike VW :smirk_cat:

I agree with Keith . . . even if the Tesla car brand doesn’t survive in the long run, EVs are apparently here to stay, and Elon Musk may be the battery supplier for the other manufacturers

Or you could just have a second flywheel spinning in the opposite direction. I really don’t see flywheel energy storage being viable for a long distance power source, but it may have possibilities as a kinetic energy recovery braking system energy reservoir for garbage trucks that have to stop at every house, or the mailman’s truck, or city buses.

You make an excellent point. My guess is that Tesla will thrive, perhaps as a lithium-ion array producer in addition to a car maker. Typically the first to open up a market segment with successful product retains the lion’s share of the market for many years. Tesla isn’t standing still, aggressively and constantly evolving, and may even retain the leading-edge of the technology for a very long time.

Re: the flywheels, I remember when this idea was being explored. There turned out to be just too many problems to overcome trying to control a large enough mass spinning at a high enough speed to harness enough energy make it cost-effective. Turbines were another option explored, famously by Chrysler, but they turned out to be impractical too. The Wenkle engine was and is an elegant solution, if only they could solve the problems inherent in using apex seals and odd shaped cylinders.

Well, that’s Tesla’s problem: they’ve had a near-monopoly on electric cars…and they STILL lost copious amounts of money. Now that they have competition, it becomes that much harder to make money.

I think the innovation Tesla has made is laudable. I think somebody is going to make a lot of money selling e-cars. I don’t think that somebody is Tesla Motors.

Nikolai Tesla was a genius, who was unable to monetize his inventions, and died poor. Unfortunately, Musk chose a very fitting name for his company.

I’m not so sure about that ‘retains the lion’s share of the market for many years’ thing for the first companies. Look at the original companies that sold microcomputers (before there was a PC) - they’re pretty much all gone.

Tesla will face huge pressure on the high side from Porsche/Audi/MB/BMW and on the low side from VW/GM, all the while having bad reliability problems, a crazy SUV with fatally flawed rear doors, and the need to ramp up production on the 3 to volumes an order of magnitude higher than anything they’ve done before. VERY challenging…

That is exactly what I was thinking!
Even some of the PC companies that came along in the second wave are also gone.

An amusing aside:

Ray Charles in grade school was chuckling during class. The teacher stopped the lesson and said, “Mr. Charles, perhaps you can share with the class what you find so amusing.” Ray said, “There’s a mouse in your waste basket.”

And so there was.


A second flywheel spinning in hte opposite direction will not solve that problem. The precess occurs 90 degrees from the applied force so flywheels spinning in opposite directions would tear themselves apart and whatever they are mounted to. Gimbal mounting is the only way.

The world needs another $150K super-sedan like a fish needs a bicycle. EV or not.