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Elon Musk should start worrying about his next rival

…in the electric car marketplace, namely the upcoming Porsche Mission E.
By utilizing an 800 volt battery pack–instead of Tesla’s 400 volt power supply–this new Porsche can provide the driver with a 250 mile range after just 15 minutes of charging time, and it is also insanely fast if the driver wants to play boy-racer. Its total range is purportedly 300 miles.

Cool! I always loved Porsches. And the price will be???

I don’t understand how the battery voltage is that relevant. It’s the energy stored in the battery that determines range, and that is (mostly) independent of voltage. In other words, for a fixed volume, an 800 volt battery would have half the amp-hour capacity of a 400 volt one. energy is amp-hours x voltage, and it tends to remain constant.

Higher voltage does allow for a more efficient motor design, or at least one that weighs less.

Always thought the composite flywheel storage device was interesting. But, having a 100k rpm flywheel in trunk would be iffy.

Clearly, this will not be an EV for the masses

Elon Musk seems to be betting heavily on the small car . . . Model 3? . . . so this Porsche will certainly not compete with that

Unless Porsche claims this car will sell in the 30K range, give or take a few thousand

And I kind of doubt that

Clearly, this will not be an EV for the masses

Elon Musk seems to be betting heavily on the smaller Model 3, so this Porsche will certainly not compete with that

This car looks to be competing with the Model S

I think it will be a lot more expensive that a Model S, no matter how the S is configured. I would be surprised if it is less than $150,000. Very nice car, though.

You can bet he is very worried about this car. Porsche is following the same path that many start ups use, including Tesla, which is first make the product for the high end where you get a lot of money for fewer items sold. Remember the first Tesla’s sold for well over $100k.

But Porsche has much deeper pockets to start with. First come the high dollar Porsche’s and Audi’s, then VW electrics for the mass market.

But on the bright side for Elon, his factory may provide the batteries for Porsche, Audi, VW.

Naw. Their price points and market segments are totally different.
However, it is highly possible that those with the new Porsche will also have a Tesla… and a few Mercedes… and perhaps a Jaguar or two. Maybe even a Bentley!

The Porsche is aimed at a very exclusive clientele. Tesla is going for the middle class. I doubt they’ll cross swords.

Tesla Model S is for the middle class . . . ?!

Not in my neck of the woods . . . around here, the folks driving a Model S are comfortably above middle class

I almost always agree with mountainbike, but in this case I will side with db4690’s statement.

Yes, Tesla Model S cars are seen with some frequency in my neck of the woods, but I don’t think that the owners of these cars are in the middle class.

Instead, I think that they are from the same–elevated–income class as the folks who are driving the incredible number of Maserati Quattoporte models in my area, and those folks are definitely from the upper-income strata.

The new Tesla model, the Model 3 is $35K, cheaper than a Chevy Bolt.
I never said “Model S”. You injected that into my statement yourself.

The Model 3 isn’t even on the roads yet

IMO it was quite logical for us to assume you meant a Tesla which is currently on the roads, such as the Model S

I don’t have one of these, you know


But I could probably buy one at some trinket shop, I suppose :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Flywheel storage has been kicked around for many decades. It has a fundamental physical problem that limits its use.

Have you ever taken a bicycle wheel and held it by the axle and spun the wheel? It essentially acts like a gyroscope at that point. It greatly resists your efforts to rotate it out of the axis of the axle.

Imagine a flywheel 6 feet in diameter, say 1000 lbs spinning at 10000 rpm or more inside a bus - buses need lots of energy to run. :wink: With the axle vertical, you can steer but uneven rolling pavement may cause one side of the bus to lift the wheels off the ground! :smiley: How about having the axis horizontal? Now the bus won’t turn a corner! :open_mouth:

I can recall reading an article–many years ago–in either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics about a plan to build new London Double-Decker buses equipped with a huge horizontal flywheel underneath the floor of the bus. Does anyone know if they were ever built?

I think! read that same article, in the 1970’s maybe?

This is an interesting read. And it does indicate commercial sales many decades ago;

A mention of London double-deckjer flywheel buses being planned for 2014-2016 with no followup;

The solution is two flywheels spinning in opposite directions.

No. It wasn’t. The Model 3 is the direction Tesla is HEADED, the Model S is the direction it’s coming from. As I said:

You cannot make your own assumptions and claim they came from another poster.

I expect Tesla will continue to make a high-end model, but they’re currently trying with the Model 3 to provide a Tesla for the middle class.

If you read the article, it says this-

The speedy charging is due to what Porsche says is a key advantage of its car: an 800-volt battery pack, vs. the 400 volts that’s become the industry standard. Porsche’s technology will let customers top up their batteries to 80 percent—for a range of about 250 miles—in 15 minutes, Porsche says. And the lighter cables required for the system have allowed the company to trim about 50 pounds from the car, which can further boost its range. With 600 horsepower, 0-62 mph acceleration in 3.5 seconds, and a top speed of about 150 mph, the car “will be a real Porsche,” Weckbach says.

They’re not saying it is the same technology battery- it is likely to be a different arrangement that allows for faster storage of the available energy. In some cases (especially in the US as compared to Europe), the limitation is the power delivery service, not the battery itself.

I wonder how many amps are required to charge that Porsche to 80% in 15 minutes - gotta be a HUGE load! Most current charging systems won’t be able to handle that.