Dagoasa; thanks for your post. With respect to the total; outlay, I just added all the non-engine & transmission items and they came to 38% ($3281) of the total of $8581, which includes every cent I spent on the car, including 3 sparkplug changes (“tuneups”), various filters, PCV valve, etc. Nothing has been left out. You misread my post and took the $3281 for engine & transmission work!!!
The point I was trying to make was that total car maintenance repair and replacements of non-powertrain items are a very significant amount, and replacing the powertrain with a battery/electric motor will not eliminate powertrain maintenance, but will reduce it, I agree.
When plastic garbage cans came on the market, followed by plastic bags, the makers of metal garbage cans staged pathetic attemps to discredit them. It did not work. We are the only family on our block that still has one metal garbage can.
As others point out, nothing will stop the introduction of electric cars when they are cost-competitive, reliable and offer a good driving range. We already have a cordless battery operated lawnmower,and never use the gas powered one anymore.
Lower maintenance of electric cars will be a selling point but not a major one, except to businesses and government.
It’s really hard to see some internal combustion engines for some uses leaving for a very long time. Diesels are so much apart of our heavy duty haul,construction and military use. Their reliability when properly used and maintained is legendary.
In my naivete I just sit and wonder why the diesel hybrid hasn’t been an integral part of our transportation system other than in locomotives. It is one of the most efficient ways of moving “stuff” ever devised.
The problem I could see is that diesel is such a “high quality” fuel along with jet fuel and heating oil, it puts the greatest pressure on oil production. Imagine cranking over a diesel in the front of a Vette than releasing the electric generator power supplied into 4 electric traction motors. Good bye tires, hello fun !
Internal combustion engines includes diesels, and I think for this discussion it may make sense to consider only gas engines. The demands of hauling 70,000 pound rigs back and forth across the country will keep diesels in the picture indefinitely.
I’d bet that gas engines also have not reached the end of their road by a long shot. They are still far and away the most convenient and best option to meet the highly varied demands of the driving public. They’ve been refined to where they operate flawlessly almost without regard to temperature and environment, the can go fast for us one day and slow the next with equal comfort, they can go just as easily across the country as to the local store, they’re never out of reach of necessary service (respects to those in the plains states), they can be refueled in minutes anywhere in the country and most of the world, they last now for years on end and hundreds of thousands of miles if properly treated, and they’re comfortable whether hauling one passenger or four passengers and a sailboat. No other power source can say that. No other can meet that broad a range of needs.
If some other power source is developed to where it can do these things better and still be affordable, it’ll take over just like cars took over for horses. My hope is that electric cars will ultimately get there, but they aren’t quite yet. They still need a better and more robust energy storage solution that can withstand rapid charges for years on end, and a refueling infrastructure. And they need to be affordable.
In the meantime, hybrids will provide a compromise between the gas engine’s truely universal appliation and affordability and their inherant weaknesses.
I won’t live long enough to see the marketplace shift away from gas engines. And I see that as a testament to the success of gas engines. They truely are a marvel.
Have you ever seen just how massive locomotive traction motors are? Each one of them outweighs a 'Vette by far. Weight doesn’t matter that much on a locomotive, in fact they need to be heavy in order for the wheels to have enough traction to pull a train.
There is no energy storage in a diesel electric locomotive. If 2000 horspower is being delivered to the wheels by the traction motors, at least 2000 horspower is being delivered to the generator by the diesel engine. The generator-motor link serves as a continuously variable transmission.
In the automotive horsepower range, a mechanical CV transmission most likely has a higher system efficiency and is certainly lighter.
You’re right, while locomotives are hybrids (diesel engine powering electric generator powering electric motors) there is no braking recovery. The electric motors do turn into generators, but it’s all used up in big thermal resistors, not to charge batteries.
The simple reason diesel hybrids don’t work in cars is cost - you don’t save enough money on fuel to pay for two expensive add-ons. No secret.
Obviously the scale is different and obviously they would run through a battery…my point is, the combination of diesel/electric is appealing but as yet not cost effective. Cost is of less concern with a Corvette, that’s the “dream” part of it. Just the contradiction of mechanics makes the thought intriguing.
How exactly does making electric cars instead of gasoline cars destroy JOBS? Do electrics really last forever or will they get junked with rusted paint, tattered upholstry, dented fenders, and hail damage just like gasoline cars.
For the umpteenth time. My relatives owned and or managed 8 dealerships with franchise in more than 15 auto makes incl. GM, Asian and European makes I can only tell you what they have told me. The dealerships make MOST of their profit, not in sales but in used cars, finance and parts and service. The parts, service account for a huge portion for some dealerships for their profit. Because it’s such a big percentage they cannot survive W/o it. the greater the range of a hybrid, the lower the maintenance requirements… the 60 to 100 mile being the threshold where the drive mechanics can literally go the life of the car w/O maintenance…including brakles.
The diesel reference I made before has nothing to do with the locomotive other than as an example of the best of both worlds. How to gain the rpm flexibility of the gas motor with the high torque, high efficiency but limited range of the diesel. The electric motor and the diesel in a high power sports car would be a great combi. I’m impressed you guys can google about locomotives…now use your imaginations and see if you can really see a distinct advantage to the diesel electric hybrid, obviously with different
technology. You guys need to get out more…
I have problems with my torque converter…how easy is it to disconnect and can i do it myself? It’s a 92 chevy cav. wagon w/air…please, i’m restricked to about 10 miles driving, and i need to travel further to find a new job…personal contact prefered. @ bigal1670@yahoo.com
Having worked for several manufacturing companies, I agree that spare parts, which traditionally costitute 12% of sales, constitute 50% of the profit. However, car dealers typically only get to service the car during the warranty period these days. I’ve observed that import dealers get their customers to come in for a longer period than domestics. Personally, I bought a new Toyota in 2007, and have been to the dealer once; in the next 2 years, I may be there once more, unless a warranty or engine problem occurs.
The aftermarket parts business really cuts into domestic and high volume import parts sales. With hybrid and electric I would imagine that the buyer will stick with the dealer for a longer time.
I estimate the total loss of service busininess by dealers and other shops to be about 2/3 of the 2/3 that constututes power train work, or about one half maximum. The biggest loss would be of course the routine oil change and muffler shops. The dealer will probably gain business initally, since they will be the only ones to service the machine, like the Prius today.
Most folks don’t realize that the government has developed an all-electric, all-terrain vehicle that has far exceeded even the wildest expectations. It’s performance has been nearly flawless, and it has lasted far longer than expected with no major repairs.
It’s on Mars. In fact, there are two of them.
The idea that we can put an all-electric, all-terrain vehicle on Mars and not on the nation’s highways is ridiculous. Spend as much money as it took to put it on Mars and find out how to do it here on Earth. We can do so many amazing technological things, but we can’t figure out how to replace the internal combustion engine? Balderdash!
Impressive, but remember it travels VERY slowly and has an infinite amount of sunlight when it has to travel…it doesn’t weigh very much either. Electrics do have their place and right now it’s on Mars. Hopefully we get Martian help soon. And how much did it cost per copy ?
This is the same misunderstanding people have with current fuel cells: ‘they can put them in spacecraft, why not in my car?’ Cost is everything. Until costs come way down, they won’t be mass market.
Just to belabor the point about the automotive industry and it’s dependence upon the ICE for long term profit in repair and maintenance…and yes we include VIP too in this mix. Did you ever even consider counting the post on our own “Repair and Maintenance” topic posts and how many are related to the ICE directly and indirectly compared to common problems with electrics ( tire balance and the like) Not very scientific, but for this confessed no brainer it’s a no brainer. Even that “topic” would be out of business in my opinion if EVs were the norm.
My knowlege of locomotive traction motors did not come from google, I have worked on these motors.
Then you above most would agree that diesels make outstanding series hybrid electricity generating internal combustion choice…better than gas for efficiency, even in cars.
Another issue with plug-in electrics: generation is not emission free, and not cheaper. And the losses involved in generation, transmission and transforming to chemical potential (battery charging) are huge. If you take the whole system together, including the creation of and disposal of dead batteries, hummers make more sense. The entire system must be overhauled, electrics are not the answer now.
Agree, from an emission and recyling point of view the whole chain of CO2 and waste generation must be tallied up. I don’t believe anyone has done that so far, especially Al Gore. I’m sure batteries will be properly and profitably recycled once electric vehicles take off.
From a money point of view, in my area it would cost me 50% of the price of gasoline to charge up and run an equivalent electric car. The main reason is the efficient generation of power in very large coal fired plant, and the very inefficient conversion of gasoline to power in a gasoline engine.
Add to that, a 50% reduction in maintenance cost from a gas to an elecric vehicle, and we gain about 50% of the 2/3 that fuel and maintenance cost in total car ownership, or a 33% total ownership reduction. This amount has to be compared with the extra money an electric vehicle would cost. A $40,000 Chevy Volt will cost $14,000 more than a Prius and $18,000 more than a Malibu, so the economics for that car don’t look great.