I was under the impression, that at least in the “sunshine states” a solar collection option would store energy at home during the day that could charge the car at night.
And that, yes, a 120/30 amp would charge at a slower rate than 220 volt 30 amp…why just 15 amp ?
Moved Post to keep in order of date.
One problem with electric car that you never here about is the fact that a lot of people live in condos, apartments, row houses, town houses, etc. These people park in parking lots, and, or on the public street with no means of running a extension cord to there electric car.
This type of housing is mostly in dense populated cities were the EV would be most practical. But no way to charge them.
“And that, yes, a 120/30 amp would charge at a slower rate than 220 volt 30 amp…why just 15 amp ?”
15 amps is the limit of most standard 115 volt outlets. If you are going to go through all the trouble to install a 50 or 100 amp 115 volt outlet, which would need a special plug, you may just as well wire up a 25-50 amp 230 volt outlet.
" was under the impression, that at least in the “sunshine states” a solar collection option would store energy at home during the day that could charge the car at night."
Tell you what, you invest in the photovoltaics needed to provide the energy needed to power an automobile and I’ll stick that money in a high yield investment and just use the interest to buy my electical power and let’s see who comes out ahead.
How about charging stations in parking lots? Not much bigger than a parking meter. Just a retractable cord and a slot to swipe your credit card. They could pop up all over like portable ATMs.
"I hope none of you guys are under the impression that you are going to charge these things from a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle.
Think more like at least 30 or 50 amp 240 volt. And you are going to be pushing it at that."
It might be possible on an overnight charge. An owner could plug into an outlet on a timer that would provide a 10-hour charge cycle. Plug in at 6PM, turn on at 9PM, unplug at 7AM when you leave for work.
Certainly the higher power 240V system is preferred.
Insurance.
That’s one of the biggest problems of owning a limited range electric car.
IF I could just insure myself (I can only drive ONE car at a time), instead of insuring each car, then it would make sense to have “special use” vehicles such as an electric car for work commuting. But no - I have to insure each vehicle no matter how much or how little I drive it.
Change insurance regulations to insure the driver, not the car, and more people will buy these. Simple, and no cost to the Govt.
jt, the large SUV and big pickups will likely diminish in sales as more normal cars the size of the Fusion, and compacts will increase. I can see vehicle weight decreasing and powerplants become more efficient and cheaper. Toyota wants the Prius price to go down to no more than today’s compacts. I’m sure they can do it.
With the maximizing of interior space there will be many cars that look like jellybeans, or square boxes like the Kia Soul?
Agree with Caddyman that the emission requirements have made the internal combustion engine expensive to build and maintain. An electric vehicle would still have all the accessories and suspension components that require maintenance and replacement, but the total would be a lot less.
Ken’s point that electric cars would put muffler shops out of business is partially true, but I recall that convenience stores made a lot of money having TV and radio tube testers and vendors on their premises. They also took back glass milk bottle and sold hula hoops! Auto service is evolving into specialty shops for electronics, engine, suspension & muffler, and so on. The loss of jiffy lubes and Midas muffler shops will not be mourned.
We have 3 lawnmowers, a gas, a battery and and manual push mower which my wife uses to get that perfectly smooth lawn. The battery one is completely painless and it does most of the work; I just put the battery in the basement for the winter and charge it up periodically and next spring we’re ready to go. The gas mower gets little use these days.
A somewhat similar situation will prevail with electric cars.
Joseph; the next generation plug-in Prius hybrid will have its roof, hood and trunk covered with solar panes to keep charging up the battery as well as from a plug-in.
Yes indeed, cars don’t need insurance, DRIVERS do!! Insurance companies will fight tooth and nail not to let that happen…In some states though, you CAN buy automotive insurance that way. You can always by “Comprehensive” for the car, but the liability part is carried by the DRIVER.
Fifteen years ago, a small company in Denver was involved in the development of hybrid cars. Honda had a Diesel-Electric power train installed in a Plymouth Horizon. The Diesel, when it ran, ran at a constant load and speed. The car had regenerative braking…The trick little Diesel was tuned to operate at that one speed and therefore was very clean and efficient. Different types of batteries and controls were being evaluated…The electric motors (2) were derived from REALLY trick permanent magnet (ceramic) motors developed for Navy torpedoes…I played a minor role of monitoring the emissions of the Diesel engine as the Japanese engineers tinkered with it. Denvers high elevation brought them to this location for this phase of the project…Part of the deal was we were to keep our mouths shut about it…The whole concept was dropped and the project abandoned when gas prices retreated and people lost interest in 70 mpg shoe-boxes…
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if people who wanted something, like an electric car, could simply purchase it from someone who made them? They would simply agree on compensation and the deal would be done.
Another cool thing would be if the guy who wanted something big…nah, huge like an Excursion, could simply pay his dough and go.
I heard there was once a way to do those things. That was before really, really smart people ran things.
Our Nation can’t afford to import the oil required to support all the Excursions consumers seem to favor. Oil prices, in the depths of a global recession, are moving upwards and are now north of $60/barrel. When Gasoline hit $4.15/gallon last summer and Diesel was over $5.00, you couldn’t GIVE an Excursion or F-250 Super-Duty away. Sales just stopped. They are STILL at historically low levels. Toyota can not keep up with demand for its Prius hybrid even after expanding production.
I am not aware of any Government efforts to shove electric cars down our throats. This thread is exploring the benefits and shortcomings of cars powered by electric motors. The “Free Market” you refer to has left Chrysler Corporation bankrupt, General Motors Corporation on the verge of bankruptcy and Ford holding on by its fingernails, its stock selling for $3-$4 a share depending which day it is…
What the Government IS going to do is cause the price of petroleum based fuel to rise dramatically (Cap & Trade) and in all likelihood create a market for more efficient vehicles…
I’m for electric cars,
The maufacturing process should simplify; :all this computer controlled stuff that can go wrong
I built an elecrtic car that uses solar panels to keep the batteries chaeged;my dad uses it to go the half-mile to get the mail and paper
I haven’t built an electric car yet but I have been playing with electric powered radio control model airplanes. I have one that is powered by a 4.5 amp-hour six cell lithium polymer battery instead of a .60 cubic inch glow (methanol+nitromethane) engine.
The performance is comparable to engine power and 10-15 minute flights are easily done if I don’t fly wide open all the time.
Here’s the problem, those batteries cost about $265 each, and they have a life of about 200-300 cycles claimed. I have about 120 cycles on each of my three batteries and already, the performance does not seem to be quite like new. If those batteries last 250 flights, it costs me about a dollar a flight just in battery attrition. End of life is kind of nebulous, what is your definition of “worn out”?
Lithium nano phospate cells are said to be longer lasting, maybe 1000 cycles and 10 year calender life claimed though I don’t think there is such a thing as a 10 year old lithium nano phosphate cell yet so that calender life may be wishful thinking.
If they ever come up with high capacity batteries that are reasonably priced with a life that lasts as long as the car, nobody will want gas powered cars anymore and everyone will be making them. Look at stationary power applications, it’s all electric motors, about the only time you see a internal comubstion engine in a stationary application is where fuel is free, such as methane out of a land fill, or in places where electricity is just not available.
There are no “conspiracys”.
Tesla is the perfect example of why there’s a long way to go for EVs. More than $100k for a 2 seater is not a realistic option. This shows how difficult it is to make an EV that is a true replacement for modern cars.
I would rather think that Tesla is an example of why EVs ARE practical, here and now. The high cost is do to the lack of large corporate assembly line, commitment to the project.
My first CD player was $250 sometime ago. In very short order when it was apparent that every one better get into the act and the sink or swim mentality took over; every electronics firm massed produced them and they dropped in price dramatically in just a year… till now, they almost give them away in DVD form. That technology was newer than the EV sans battery is today.
Batteries and electric motors are nothing new, unlike a CD player years ago.
Sometimes I wonder, as a guy who loves to ogle really old restored cars at shows, whether we might not be getting too bogged down trying to innovate and might be better off to denovate? I’m thinking of cars which must have been sweethearts in their day, so incredibly simple and still running like a top!
For instance, why not build a car that is a cross between a Studebaker Electric and a Stanley Steamer? The Stanley I saw was incredibly dead-simple, looked like it would run on, well, fingernail clippings, anything combustible, could potentially develop any horsepower, and the only drawback is you had to wait for it to warm up. The Studebaker was a cute little jitney that tools around smooth as silk on today’s roads, again very simple, and its only drawback was it was, well, electric, with limitations on range and performance.
In which case, why not the obvious? Why not build a Stanleybaker Esteamlic, that would take off and run on a state of the art battery until the steam engine warmed up and delivered the real goods, both in powering the car and recharging the battery? Plus the creation of a whole new industry developing the greenest kinds of fuels for the steam engine? The mind reels…just a thought! --Garman Lord
Also, batteries are mass produced as are motors.
Some forms of technology are at a developmental dead end. Violins, for example, work pretty much the same way today as they did 200 years ago and are just as expensive today as they were 200 years ago.
When all is said and done, it’s battery technology that will drive electric car development. And it seems we have just begun with exotic material combinations. Costs will eventually come down, as they have with power tools and computer batteries.
Ford has just signed a deal with Magna International, the auto parts giant, to build an electric car. Magna with its world-wide connections, will supply the battery and motor part and Ford will do the rest.
Magna is also the leading bidder to buy GM’s Opel division in Germany.