Of course industry likes MA/S over BA/S. And pay will reflect it. It’s more advanced training.
But the faculty at places like Stanford/CalTech and the like aren’t all that interested in “job training.” Physics isn’t some static body of knowledge where faculty “train” people to go apply it in industry. It’s a dynamic, basic science reinventing knowledge. There is a much larger interest in training the next generation of scientists. Not practitioners.
Never said otherwise. We do have this pretty decent tech college here on the East Coast. Maybe you heard of it - MIT. And this great research center called Lincoln Labs (part of MIT).
Most of the students at CalTech are NOT going on for a graduate degree. A BS from CalTech is designed to train them for a professional career.
I’ve only known 1 PhD in Physics from CalTech. I have worked with several with BS in Engineering or Computer Science from CalTech. Good engineers. But I’ve always found it’s not the school…it’s the amount of effort a person puts in. I know many CS and Math majors schools like Syracuse, or UNH or University of Maine who’ll run rings around a any grad I met from CalTech
And you know for a FACT she learned Calculus and Physics by just reading books?
I don’t know squat about where she learned what. But I also don’t know why you think the only two things to do are to either complete a formal program of courses or “just read books.” The RandomTroll said she took courses. And that she was a technical writer at the Space Radiation Lab. Perhaps one of the people there had a project going on, wanted her on it for some reason, and then made sure she did what she needed to get in.
I don’t really care all that much, in any case. So have a field day with it.
I’d guess folks learn calculus and physics all the time just by reading books. Many people in the world have no access to this sort of education, with an instructor, so they have to learn it by reading books & they probably get some instruction via the internet. If you understand how to interpret a checking account statement , you already know most of what you need to know to understand basic calculus.
Bruce Williams used to call it getting your ticket punched. People look for credentials. I had a guy that was a very good artist. Even did snow sculpture at the winter carnival. But I told him you have to at least go back and get some formal art training or no one will pay attention. Last I heard he was still at the same job. There is talent but then you have to get your ticket punched with course work. I don’t know anything about art but need to be exposed to the rules of proportion, various media, etc.
What evidence have you?
That’s not ChE. I can see that at stanford.edu
Because I’ve known people who didn’t. Stephen Wolfram was admitted at the age of 17 to work in Murray Gell-mann’s group. He finished his dissertation when he was 18.
They could have. The question is why would they have bothered. They’re openly deprecated in almost all disciplines, including ChE. There’s no petroleum engineering at Caltech.
I remembered (perhaps wrongly) that Wisconsin had a large ChE department, went to their site to see what degrees they offered (specifically master’s in specialties), found,
‘The Department of Chemical and Biological Engineering does not consider applications for a terminal M.S. degree; the department admits only to the Ph.D. program. The M.S. degree can be awarded post-admission for work completed leading to the Ph.D. degree. The M.S. degree is not a prerequisite for the Ph.D. degree.’(Chemical Engineering, M.S. < University of Wisconsin-Madison)
Last time I looked Caltech had the highest fraction of its grads getting doctoral degrees, though it wasn’t quite a majority - I think it was 46%. They may be now.
What fraction of Catech physics phds get their degree without any courses? 1%? 0.1%. You present it as an important feature of the program. A small handful of people doing that makes it the rare exception. I’m sure Caltech attracts a few unique geniuses, that’s different from it being a major aspect of the program.
So I’m right.
So, has CalTech taken any Art History majors into their physics PHD program?
Right about what?
I stated that MOST caltech undergrads don’t go to graduate school. Last I knew 46% is less then 50%,
I have zero knowledge of these numbers. However, the statement was about the percentage obtaining doctoral degrees. If 46% is accurate, that is a huge - nay massive - percentage. However, since graduate school also includes Master’s and drop outs, then if it it is true that 46% go on for PhDs, then I’d find it implausible that well over 50% don’t “go to graduate school.” But “go to graduate school” doesn’t = obtained a doctorate.
More to the point, however, is…um, what’s the point?
Simple google search found this - “43% went on to graduate or professional school”
About a percent. Caltech isn’t unique. Any school that attracts the most-brilliant will get some. One of the most-brilliant people I’ve met started his doctoral candidacy at MIT immediately. Jane Goodall was never an undergrad, didn’t take grad courses, got a PhD. She knew her stuff.
I don’t think I did. I think it’s important that people understand that the ideal of the grad student is the independent work s/he does, the new knowledge s/he creates. People talk about the ABD as though it represents a significant accomplishment. It shows somebody who didn’t follow through. I dropped out of grad school, so I’m not picking on others. Some colleges grant PhDs to independent scholars who get admitted just to submit their dissertation. The faculty reads it first, won’t bother with one they won’t approve. Tom Wolfe got one in American Studies at Yale this way.
Caltech isn’t the only place that attracts them and treats them the same way. I didn’t say it was a major aspect of the program.
Yes. I corroborated your assertion. I thought it possible to interpret your earlier statement as irony, that nowhere near a majority did, wanted to address that possibility.
I don’t know. I expect not, but if s/he showed her/his stuff, it could happen. If I hadn’t known Ms Córdova I wouldn’t have guessed that a non-technical employee would have gotten one either.
When I was an undergrad a Miss America (or something like that) said she wanted to go to Caltech to study nutrition, not something Caltech offered. Lots of students petitioned for her admission anyway.
An undergrad, Barry LaBonte, who objected to all the requirements of the astronomy major, majored in economics instead, then earned a PhD in astronomy at Caltech, worked as an astronomer all his life. I just looked him up: he died at 55. Sad.
That’s a different thing: going doesn’t mean finishing.
Hey @texases : did you apply the the engineering division at Caltech? ChE is in a separate division. Did you meet John Leal?
I interviewed at the ChE department, after 46 years I don’t remember the names of the folks. We did talk about how the current crop of phd candidates were taking their time, high average years in the program.