Majority of other businesses would maybe own up and give 50% credit for tires since partially used.
Winter tires do not have tread life warranty by tire maker or seller.
I think asking for a compromise is more fair than full replacement. Not trying to kick you while you are down but your vehicle may have a poor alignment wrecking the tires also.
Good luck.
Walmart is a massive corp, awful tire seller, and has an incredible legal team.
I hear you, meaneyed, but I reserve the right to respond in kind to ignorant remarks directed at me. oldschool described my post regarding a letter to the local paper as “LAME”–all caps, instead of just saying he thought it wouldn’t work. Then he used a sarcastic analogy with a comic strip–the whole time completely missing my point regarding a letter to the editor. I think you did, too. Please re-read the post by me in question. If you still don’t get what I was saying then I will explain it.
I respect what you say, Whitey, but I still think it’s unreasonable to expect a non automotive person to somehow divine that there’s an arrow on the sidewall, and to then look at it to see what it means.
Cindy,
You seem to hang on the “tire mounted backwards theory”. As you have noticed, you are having extreme difficulty in getting that in writing.
Why? Because it is untrue.
As JoeMario said “And yes, one of the people who replied to you has been designing tires for one of the major companies for many years.” I would be him - and I can state categorically that mounting a tire backwards only affects the hydroplaning (and by extention slush) resistance. Wear, ride, traction (other than wet and slush traction), directional stability (also known as pull) are unaffected by the direction of rotation.
When I suggested you have some look at the tires, you said someone did and they determined that they were mounted backwards. With all due respect, that is not expertise. There’s an arrow on the sidewall and anyone who see that can make that determination.
What I meant was to have someone assess the condition of the tires. There are names for conditions found in tires and anyone with expertise can tell you what they observe using those names and give you a severity of the condition - AND - tell you why the condition is present. From that you can move in a direction to resolving the problem.
But I have come to the conclusion that your quest to get someone to pay for your tires is fruitless. You will not succeed, because you are using a worthless theory - and those people in a position to make that decision know that.
Since you didn’t buy the tires from WalMart - and they are not the cause of the problem - until you come up with a theory as to what actually caused the problem, and take action based on that theory, you do not have a chance at succeeding.
I don’t know any guys named Cindy. Do you?
Of course there was that boy named Sue, or was it Sioux, a while back.
She admitted to being a single mom and driving a Pontiac “momobile” in earlier posts. As Cindy said, some guys here aren’t listening.
I am not a tire expert. Other than having bought dozens if not hundreds of them over the last 42 years of car ownership, I know very little. One thing I remember, even from the days before radial ply tires, was that I was told not to reverse the direction of studded tires from season to season. The reason is the fact that once the tire has been used on the right side of the vehicle, if it were put on the left the next year, the pull against the studs would be totally the opposite. This will cause the areas were the studs are inserted to elongate in the other direction. This in turn will cause the studs to pop out of the tire. As far as whether directional tires will wear faster if they are mounted backwards, I have no idea. A google search, which Cindy has already done, has two distinctly differing opinioins.
That said:
Two priests died at the same time and met Saint Peter at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter said, “I’d like to get you guys in now, but our computer is down. You’ll have to go back to Earth for about a week, but you can’t go back as priests. So what else would you like to be?”
The first priest says, “I’ve always wanted to be an eagle, soaring above the Rocky Mountains.”
“So be it,” says St. Peter, and off flies the first priest.
The second priest mulls this over for a moment and asks, “Will any of this week ‘count’, St. Peter?”
“No, I told you the computer’s down. There’s no way we can keep track of what you’re doing.”
“In that case,” says the second priest, “I’ve always wanted to be a stud.”
“So be it,” says St. Peter, and the second priest disappears.
A week goes by, the computer is fixed, and the Lord tells St. Peter to recall the two priests. “Will you have any trouble locating them?” He asks.
“The first one should be easy,” says St. Peter. “He’s somewhere over the Rockies, flying with the eagles. But the second one could prove to be more difficult.”
“Why?” asketh the Lord.
“He’s on a snow tire, somewhere in North Dakota.”
What gender is “Elly Ellis”? On one IT Forum I frequent all you have to do is pretend to be female and people are falling all over themselves to “help”, pretty pathetic.
In any case I do not factor in any specifics about the OP (gender, economic status, educational level, marital status). I am giving (or trying to sort out) advice about the OP’s car problem. So it is immaterial as to the OP’s gender, why do they even mention it, are they playing the “gender card”? “Whoa is me, the poor single Mom who has been taken advantage of”, not revelant to fixing the car. Perhaps “Dear Abby” would have been a better place for this one.
First thing I do when answering a post is confirm that the story the OP is telling adds up and making sure I am not being manipulated (as best possible).
I think the nature of the “show” makes people think they can make any type of claim about being “harmed” by a mechanic or business and they will recieve immediate support from Forum Members, not so in my case. The OP’s think that their post will not be “looked over” to see that all they post makes sense, it will in my case.
From personal telephone exper, Michelin won’t talk about anything which might be even slightly controversial, so, I would give up on that tack if it were me. However, small claims courts were designed for situs such as yours. They eliminate a person having to hire a lawyer for a relatively small damage claim, so that a claimant can recover all their money loss. Big businesses and small alike do not like being taken before the judge in a sm. claims hearing because they are time consuming and not worth the cost to them, and, the adverse publicity is a business stifler (they get published in our town). When you file in small claims court there is a nominal filing fee, usually @ $25, and the sheriff’s fee, @ $50 - for delivering the summons. You reclaim those fees you paid to the clerk when the judge finds in your favor at the hearing where you present your case. A $150.00+tax shirt, which was ruined by my dry cleaner cost him the cost of the shirt, plus tax plus the dry cleaning charge I paid plus the court fees to settle with me. He refused to deal with me personally and said, “Go ahead and sue”, as do most businesses because they know most people won’t file. Business owners are bluffing when they say that. Just take your case to small claims court if you are confident in your facts. Wal-Mart sure as hell can afford to pay if they made a mistake. And, next time, try Sears Automotive.
What do you mean by “non automotive person”? You do drive a car, don’t you? The public relies on you to know enough about your car to operate it safely. You are capable of conducting a routine pre-trip inspection, which should include inspecting your tires, checking the fluids, adjusting the mirrors, etc., right? I should hope a car is more to you than just an appliance you get into and drive without personally making sure it is safe. Did you take a Driver’s Education class before you got your license? Were you there the day they discussed pre-trip inspections?
OK, I’ve read just about all the posts. The Michelin tires have not been identified by model, or perhaps I missed that. Some Michelin tires, but not all, are “directional”.
Let’s say these Michelin tires aren’t directional, but when you put studs in them - once thay are mounted on the car now they are directional because of the studs. These are now directional tires but do not have “arrows” on the sidewalls. When these tires were carefully taken off the car (but are still mounted on the wheels) they should be marked in chalk RR for right rear, RF for right front, LF for left front, and LR for left rear. Any tire, studded or not, once it has been on the car and run for a few hundred miles should always mounted to run in the same direction. The studs just make it much more critical to mount the tires properly. I always mark my summer and winter tires when I take them off my car.
If the tires were marked for rotation with chalk as they should have been, then Walmart messed up and should give you a good deal on some new tires, perhaps your next set of summer tires since they don’t sell studded winter tires that you require. If the tires weren’t marked by whoever took them off the previous spring then Walmart is not at fault, whoever failed to mark them is at fault.
Now, if the Michelin tires are directional and have arrows on the sidewall Walmart is quilty of improperly mounting the tires, you don’t need Michelin to prove that. So, if Walmart is to blame and won’t give you some kind of financial settlement take them to court.
You are going to have to be reasonable in what you expect Walmart to do for you. The tires were “used” when you brought them in for mounting on the car. They are not going to give you full new tire value for “used” tires. I suggest you ask Walmart for a $200 gift card as compensation for their error. If they refuse then you either take it to court or forget ever shopping at Walmart again.
An arrow on the sidewall that the driver may or may not notice, and that she probably doesn’t know exists to begin with has nothing to do with a pre-trip inspection. Even if she went by the letter of her owner’s manual’s description of a pre-trip inspection, I doubt it
would say anything about checking to make sure that, in the event the owner had recently had directional tires installed on the vehicle, that she should make sure they were installed correctly. Of course, from this day on, you could take her to task if she got another set of directional tires and didn’t check to see if they were installed properly.
I’m not sure what the gist of the rest of your post is but I would be glad to answer the questions you asked:
‘What do you mean by “non automotive person”?’
No offense, but this seems so obvious that it’s hard to put it into words. I guess it’s a subjective call, but one meaning might be, a person who, though knowledgeable about certain superficial aspects of their automobile, has never worked on a car and may have only a foggy grasp, at best, concerning the fundamentals of automotive theory.
“You do drive a car, don’t you?”
Yes.
“You are capable of conducting a routine pre-trip inspection, which should include inspecting your tires, checking the fluids, adjusting the mirrors, etc., right?”
Yes.
“I should hope a car is more to you than just an appliance you get into and drive without personally making sure it is safe.”
I’ll try to answer your implied question here.
As an inspection mechanic, yes, I treat my car as more than an appliance. However, I often do get in it and drive it without personally making sure it’s safe. However, periodically I
check all kinds of safety related things on it.
“Did you take a Driver’s Education class before you got your license?”
No, I got my license off a crackerjack box. (It’s a joke!) Sorry, Whitey; yes, in the summer of 67. I hadn’t even heard of hippies yet.
“Were you there the day they discussed pre-trip inspections?”
Wow, this is dirty pool! You’re asking me to dredge something out of my memory from 42 years ago! Well, I don’t remember getting sick that summer–I usually only get sick in the winter–so yeah, I probably was there that day, but I can’t say for sure.
I do have intense memories of some things, though. The seniors, that had just graduated, had taken a 55 gallon drum, painted it to look like a Colt 45 Malt Liquor can, and had hoisted it on top of the gymnasium roof. It overlooked the area where we practiced parallel parking. They had written “Jack’s Favorite” on it. Jack Livingston was the principal.
Watch out for those directional tires, Whitey.
Reading this thread just reiterates why I don’t go to Walmart or big chains for vehicle maintenance. Whether or not installing the tires backwards causes premature wear is irrelevant. They were contracted to perform a basic service and they performed the service incorrectly. In the relationship between the client and the service provider, the service provider is the expert and should have appropriate QA/QC procedures to check for these kinds of problems. Of course, it’s always prudent to double check work but it’s reasonable to expect that it’ll be done correctly.
I think a free new set of tires is an unrealistic expectation but I believe an apology and some kind of good faith offer is reasonable.
A couple of years ago, I purchased a set of four tires from a local tire place. When I went to go to work the next day, each tire was flat. I called and spoke with the owner and he was embarrassed and apologetic. He fixed the problem (had to do with the valve stems), game me a partial refund and that was that. There were no hard feelings as shit happens but he took responsibility and I’m still a customer.
I re-read your post and I hold fast to my beliefs and convictions, you are being a bit thin skinned. You do not like his tone or his particular words, big deal. If this were a habit sure, fight back, nothing wrong with that but come on. You need to agree to disagree. Do not explain what you meant, it does not matter.
“You do not like his tone or his particular words, big deal.”
You do not like my tone or my particular words, big deal.
“Do not explain what you meant, it does not matter.”
No dice. I’m gonna make things clear anyway: I never said to write a letter to the editor. I said to threaten to write a letter. Then somebody misinterpreted that statement and tore apart the misinterpretation. Gimme a break, Meaneyed.
Cindy, You’re actually quite lucky that prematurely worn-out tires are all that happened, directional tires mounted backward cause the water to rapidly build up under the tires rather than shed it, causing hydroplaning to occur much more readily. MINI of Peabody sent my wife’s car out like that. First they denied it, then they said it doesn’t matter… I fired them on the spot, they’ll never see another dime of my business.
That said: buyer beware, you have to be extra cautious whenever you have work done at a “bargain” shop. You bare some responsibility to ensure the work was done properly, even if it means having a trusted friend check the job over. Unless you can get Walmart to “roll over”, I think your stuck with this one.
With all due respect, it never pays to “cheep-out” on your car repairs, you’ll end up paying another way.
Caddyman, once again the perception of the “common man” is spot on, but once again I think your post may have a limited lifespan.
I had the exact same comparison in my mind many days ago.
My “incorrect comment” is that I seem obligated, it is required, and it is “the way the world is” to relieve some customers of all of their money that I can by any means, some people just ask to be ripped off, and I have previously not obliged them, but perhaps that is the reason I am a worker bee and not a chief.
Call Michelin back, but DON’T tell them that it’s Wal-Mart your dealing with, tell them that it’s some small no-name shop. Wal-Mart buys LOTS of tires from Michelin, Goodyear… Michelin will not do anything to make Wal-Mart mad. It’s worth a shot.
Did you go above the tire manager to the store manager?
If that doesn’t work write to HQ, with a cc to the local newspaper. There surely is a tire buyer back there that knows the truth.
Did you search the net for corroboration on what you were told on the phone [originally]?
Cindy, I’m sorry but I don’t know where you can find Michelin policy stating that reverse rotation for the tires you bought is improper installation. However, IMHO, UncleTurbo is spot on. If you presented a compromise to the Walmart store manager you have the best luck getting something. If you are now only left to deal with the “independant resolution company” you are out of luck. They play this game EVERYHOUR of EVEVERDAY (remember Walmart pays their bills). They KNOW no tire company will put certain things in specific language. The Small Claims Court outcome can be very dependant upon the mood of the Judge as much as anything else. Playing the emotional ‘poor working mom’ card there doesn’t win any points there. Only a logical thesis can win & I believe UncleTurbo has laid out a strategy very well.
BTW It was not apparent to me where Cindy was argueing. She only expressed exasperation with those who would not carefully read and answer her question; (paraphrasing) “Where is it in tire company print that states…?”
I forgot to mention that if Michelin management found out what supervisor hung the phone up on you that person would have a lot of explaining to do. I know it gives me pause to buy their product knowing their customer service personel aren’t dedicated to helping the ‘poor working moms’ in their customer base. If they outsource this function you are just ?OL on this avenue.