obviously the politics involved are much more important to the Messiah branch of the runaway politicians, who CREATED this mess going back many years. Now one “party” sees a terrific political opportunity to do things that we as free capitalists abhor and the left hasn’t been able to do in the past 40 years. Political opportunism and the public be damned. time for a real tea party, both sides of the aisle are the same, power and money for them…they can’t even find someone who paid their taxes to serve in this government. “minor oversites”, except they can’t find 65 Billion that Madoff stole but the IRS will get you for no receipt from Goodwill. Since the government has been SO GOOD at managing and oversight LET"S give them enormously more power. We are certainly going to pay the price for this folly…a pox on both their houses. Fair tax anyone? Obviously we don’t want centralized government deciding what companies will succeed or how much we pay them to manage, but that is what is happening.
Is it true that the vehicles offered by Chrysler at this time are the vehicles designed when under the ownership of Mercedes Benz ??? Then they Bailed !!!
The rear drive cars, Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 were hand me down platforms form the previous generation E Class Mercedes. The Chrysler sports car (forgot the name) was a re-skinned Mercedes CK? coupe. The Dodge Sprinter is really a Mercedes commercial van.
On the cars, Chrysler cut out all the expensive Mercedes features and engines to keep the cost down. Mercedes did no original design work for Chrysler.
Tom and Ray are probably right. This is a repeat of Renault taking over American Motors.
Chrysler is in really rough shape, and most of their vehicles are not competitive. But they have some good, modern plants, and some good design staff and product planners, who can identify with North American tastes. It’s hard to imagine Fiat learning quality control from Chrysler, but that will likley happen too.
I predict that the best of Chrysler will be kept (Jeep is an Icon, trucks are good), and the rest will be quietly phased out, like what Renault did to AMC.
If Fiat plays this right it will establish itself once more in North America, but with cars that actually work and last a reasonably long time.
What is interesting is we already have a mostly Fiat designed car that is niche but highly acclaimed for what it is. The Suzuki SX/4 cross over is a rebadged Fiat. Suzuki sells it where they have outlets.
I have driven one and for $16k+ a decent entry level AWD car besides Subaru Impreza.
The Crossfire was an SLK320, not the CLK (4-seater) and used the 3.2L Benz engine. It was even available with the supercharged AMG engine. MB did not update the Crossfire when they brought out the new generation of the SLK one year after introducing the Crossfire.
“I predict that the best of Chrysler will be kept (Jeep is an Icon, trucks are good), and the rest will be quietly phased out, like what Renault did to AMC.”
Probably so. Fiat may keep a couple of hot cars, like the Viper. They do have a few of their own: Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Lancia. Hey, I wouldn’t mind seeing larger Lancia sedans and Alfa Romeo Coupes instead of the existing Chrysler sedan line.
jt, thanks for the info. I recently worked with a guy who had a Crossfire, and it looked very Mercedes under the skin.
Has Chrysler ever actually made any money from selling Vipers? How many do they sell each year? Perhaps a couple of hundred?
The Viper is an “image” vehicle–like the Ford GT40–that manufacturers sometimes produce in order to promote their corporate image, despite the fact that they lose money on each one that they sell. However, at this point, Chrysler is in such dire straits that I don’t think that anyone who runs it would see fit to continue to produce a low-volume/low-sales car that requires so much hand assembly.
I think that Fiat is likely to keep only the minivans, and perhaps Jeep. Or they may sell Jeep to another company, since that would be one way for them to raise money from the corpse of the Chrysler Corporation. Chrysler’s sedans should be discontinued, as they are simply not competitive.
Agree with the image building value of icon cars like the Corvette, which probably does not make money for GM, but the loss is probably small as well. The Viper can’t compete on image with Ferrari and Maserati, in my opinion, although it is probably a more reliable and maintainable car than either one.
I had a roadster Crossfire as a rental once. It was fun, but impractical. I had to shoehorn my briefcase and overnight bag behind the roof with the top down. The supercharged version might be a real hoot and is probably attractively priced.
Who ever said Chrysler made money on the Viper? And clearly, Fiat can afford another image car. Look at what they spend on F1 every year.
Yes, Fiat can probably afford an image car, but the question remains–Do they want a car that represents the image of the old (pre-Fiat) company?
I think that they are more likely to want to promote Maseratis, Ferraris, and Alfa Romeos in the US.
Fiat does quite well selling Maseratis and Ferraris in the USA. They need no additional dealer network to support those cars. Alfa Romeos and Lancias? An existing dealer network would be a great way to introduce them to the US market, along with the small cars they’d like to export here.
I think Ford came out on top from a combination of (slightly) better management, and mostly good luck. They were forced to reorganize and slim down before the bottom dropped out of the market. If that hadn’t happened, I believe there’d be all three automakers in dire straits right now.
I’d still trust a Mopar product for reliability over a GM these days. But with the constant layoffs, shaving pennies everywhere, and the miserable morale that must exist right now in these companies, I’d be very leery of the build quality right now from either of them.
As far as Fiat+Chrysler, well, who knows? I think the merger will likely produce less glamorous products than the Daimler+Chrysler merger did, but something good might (and hopefully will) come of it. Chrysler’s been a survivor and been through this before. I’d like to see them go another few rounds and I fear for the industry and the economy if they don’t.
The “merger” of Fiat and Chrysler is not likely.
They were discussing a marketing arrangement as a way to bring Alfa etc back to the USA. It isn’t likely Fiat would actually PAY anything for the privilege of owning Chrysler. There is NO CHANCE of a merger w/o lots of Uncle Sam’s Bailout Billions; the company is worth much much less than its liabilities.
Cerberus has declined to put any of THEIR money into play as being imprudent to their own investors. They got the company from Mercedes for nearly nothing after assuming debt. Mercedes had to make several billion in guarantees to close the deal.
One bit of history: Lee Iacocca wanted to produce a competitor for Jeep. He ended up buying the real thing for less than half the cost of a new start-up. Today, however, they have damaged that brand trying to pass off Dodge cars w/Jeep badges.
The folks at Fiat are certainly smart enough and they read the news over there too. When the POTUS says Fiat and Chrysler must “merge” in 30 days, well, dream on.
Ford made a good business decision at a very good time. They saw what was happening in the world of finance and figured it would blow up soon. They sold everything the owned to raise cash for that dreaded time (now).
“The folks at Fiat are certainly smart enough and they read the news over there too. When the POTUS says Fiat and Chrysler must “merge” in 30 days, well, dream on.”
You must have been looking into this. Or not. If you’d like to look into it, here’s a good place to start:
Why would Daimler refuse to relinquish their worthless 19.9% stake in Chrysler if it truly is worthless? Sure the deal might not happen, but it looks more like it will to me.
At the NY International Auto Show today, Chrysler LLC President Jim Press drove onto the display floor in a Fiat 500, accompanied by lots of cameras. Mr. Press asked the surrounding reporters, “Wouldn’t this car be perfect for getting around NYC?”. This little publicity stunt would certainly seem to be a clue regarding the future for Chrysler.
From what I gather Fiat will trade 20% of Chrysler stock for free technology for Chrysler to build economy and other specialty Fiat designed cars. It also allows Fiat to sell cars (those that Chrysler will not build) through Chrysler dealers, like Mitsubishi and Citroen of France used to do. No money will change hands, since Fiat does not have any money to spare, but lots of small car designs.
This whole deal would be unacceptable to the Obama team if Chrysler were to only sell rebadged imported Fiats, thus still having to shut down most of tis plants.