I am betting it is a lower radiator hose. As far as Sears the one in this town ranks right up there with iffy lube.
~Michael
gotta love this BBS!?
JM
in answer to your OP. (without ranting, or belittling you as others may have done)
you asked three questions.
Yes, CSK part are as good as any others. CSK doesnāt make any parts they only rebrand what is made by others. either reman or new, they are in all likelyhood made at the same plants the others are from, then they get put in to the specific boxes and get the stickers for each retailer.
yes CSK liability is just to replace, or refund the cost of the part. (but after 11,000 miles i seriously doubt you have a warranty left.
Yes, i did get your point about staying away from iffylube (and other quick places, and other half competent shops) and i do realize your job was done at a shop which was recomended to you.
HOWEVER, the problem may not be solely in the waterpump. in all likely hood the water pump may not have been either installed correctly (the mentioned tensioner, overtightened belt, or out of alignment issues), or it may NOT have been solely the problem of the water pump. collapsed hose, stuck thermostat, weeping hose connections, air leak which air bound the thermostat, improper [or never done] bleeding of air to purge the system when the water pump was installed, etc.
so you have to fully discover the true cause of the waterpump (and associated cooling system āfailureā to totally dicover the true cause of the problem.
Well we need a new water pump. Not sure yet what else is wrong or why the pump failed
A competent tech (Sears?) should be able to look it over and figure out with reasonable certainty why the pump failed; if theyāre correct in their pump diagnosis.
The car is in our regular garage when we are in CO so they will find out what happened and we will let you know and no we arent getting another checker part (sorry we just cant afford a third / fourth / etc repair when they break again when this is a 3 1/2 labour job)
Sears by the way doesnt do these repairs. They are however very good (usually) on basic things like batteries; tyres; oil changes, etc.
Yes, CSK part are as good as any others. CSK doesnāt make any parts they only rebrand what is made by others. either reman or new, they are in all likelyhood made at the same plants the others are from, then they get put in to the specific boxes and get the stickers for each retailer.
We donāt have CSK here in NHā¦but based on the National chains we do have this statement is WRONG. They do NOT carry the same parts as other companies. They are NOT made by the same manufacturers. The FEW parts Iāve found that they do carry other parts stores carry are NOT the same line. Pep-Boy carries Raybestos brake padsā¦they are NOT the same line a local chain (Robins) carries. Looking at the pads you can see the difference. PepBoys also carries this line of belts I never heard ofā¦Same for their ignition parts. Try to get NGK spark plugs thereā¦Itās either Champion, AC or Autolite.
The ONLY national chain Iāve ever found to carry decent parts is NAPAā¦But their prices are a bit high.
You know we feel the same though other posters are telling us to trust Checkers (CSK). We have Napa here and there are never any problems with Napa. Our problem is we travel alot due to our job and when you are in rural areas of the west; you dont get alot of choice. Usually mechanics do not ask what kind of parts you want either so now we have a huge repair bill that we just did 4 months ago. We would rather pay more for better parts then pay 2 or mroe times for the same repair.
We used to get batteries and other electrical parts at checkers when we didnt know any better and we used to spend alot of time going back and forth as one after another part failed.
We have any number of part stores where we live too. Pep Boys is half a mile; Checkers (2 stores) are about a mile away but we drive the longer distance to Havana Auto Parts which is a Napa store and they even have a machine shop across the street. Very knowledgeable people there too.
Next time we have the car towed to a AAA approved repair where they dont use cheap parts and just wait to get her fixed. We are still in shock how badly this water pump failed as we are losing about a gallon just to drive 1 mile away. Hope we didnt fry the engine too as the temp guage was not on but who knows if it is working or not. Get the bad news later today.
Really dont see how these part stores stay in business as they are doing this to so many people.
Here is where I have an issue with Mike again.
Mike, you claim to never use the chain stores such as AutoZone, OāReillys, etc. so exactly where does your knowledge of their faulty parts and who makes them come from?
I use them on a weekly basis and if they sold junk parts then I would not use them; pure and simple.
Let me ask this.
When I buy parts from AutoZone, OāReillys, Advance, etc. these are some of the brand names they give me.
Clevite, Melling, Perfect Circle, Moog, Bosch, Gates, Goodyear, Fel-Pro, TRW, Autolite, Cloyes, Beck-Arnley, Raybestos, AC Delco, Timken/National/SKF bearings, Monroe, Gabriel, Borg-Warner, Federal-Mogul, Cardone, Delphi, Wix, Fram, etc, etc.
Name one on that list that āmakes defective partsā.
As to the argument about a store branded part, I will repeat this yet again. Many of those store branded parts are made by the same companies that you may swear by.
TRW for example. Not only does TRW make suspension parts as OEM equipment for many car makers, they also market those same parts under the TRW name AND under a store branded name.
So a TRW ball joint marketed by Checkers in a box with their logo is inferior to the one used as OEM or in a box branded TRW?
A Hecho en Mexico MOOG ball joint in a MOOG box is superior to a Hecho en Mexico MOOG ball joint marketed in a Checkers branded box?
(For what itās worth, the last 2 lower ball joints I bought came from AutoZone and they were MOOG. Mexican made, but MOOG nonetheless.)
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Really dont see how these part stores stay in business as they are doing this to so many people.
These parts stores are like the Home Depot of home improvement. They cater to the do-it-yourselfer. Most either donāt know or donāt care about the parts they put in. I had to put a radiator in my sisters carā¦it was a 12yo Honda Civic with over 150k miles. I bought the CHEAPEST radiator I could find (PepBoys)ā¦It worked fine for the next 2 years when she finially sold it.
We hit an antelope last June in rural WY. SK was fine until we got back to Denver and then the radiator started to leak bad. The local Sears (same one) put in a new one as we didnt want to drive too far and we had a bad leak. We had a choice but again we didnt go cheap since we were keeping SK a long time. This kind of repair though is easy enough to do and its not a real pricy labour job (as you can probably tell us)but if you are going to have a pricy labour job like a water pump; well we wouldnt go cheap!!!
As for what ok4450 is stating well we are not a mechanic but we do know most of these brands are good ones that he is stating but for the average person who doesnt know; napa is by far the better deal and none of their parts are junk or even close to junk so why worry if you are getting a good brand (and hence a good part) when you can go to a napa store?
In our area I have Autozone or Pepboysā¦There is an Advance (use to be owned by Sears) about 20 miles from me.
Our Autozone does NOT carry Goodyear, Gates, TRW or Wixā¦At least not in the parts I was looking for. They do carry Moogā¦but in very limited supply. Had to replace the rear ball-joint on my wifes 87 Accord after 10 years of use. Autozone didnāt even have a listing for it. Went to Robins (local chain) and they had the part IN-STOCKā¦MADE BY MOOG.
They also advertise they carry NGKā¦When we owned our 96 Accord they didnāt have a listing for NGK plugs for that carā¦If they carry NGKā¦for WHAT cars to they carry them for. Honda Accordā¦one of the most popular cars madeā¦And NGK is the OEM plug for that vehicle. The ONLY plug they even listed was Autolite.
Saying you have all these brands dosenāt mean squat if they donāt have it for the vehicle youāre looking for.
And how good are Ditz belts (maybe itās Dritz). Because thatās the brand our Autozone carries. NEVER been able to buy a Gates or Goodyear belt from themā¦All theyāve EVER listed is Ditz/Dritz.
Autozone and PepBoys ARE convenient. Theyāre open late (usually until 9)ā¦and open Saturday and Sunday. These are the times Iām usually looking for a part. Sanel Brothers (local chain) is NOT open Sundayā¦and only open Saturdays til noon. But they do have the parts and the quality Iām looking for. Iāve given up trying to find a quality part at Autozone. If they donāt carry them for vehicles like my wifes Accord or my Pathfinder or 4runner then who do they carry them for.
PepBoys also carries this line of belts I never heard ofā¦Same for their ignition parts. Try to get NGK spark plugs thereā¦Itās either Champion, AC or Autolite.
Thatās weird. I wanted NGK platinums for my civic. Autozone didnāt have them but Pep Boys did. Maybe itās up to individual store owners/managers on these items.
Thatās weird. I wanted NGK platinums for my civic. Autozone didnāt have them but Pep Boys did. Maybe itās up to individual store owners/managers on these items.
PepBoys is a LITTLE better then Autozone for parts availability. For my wifes 96 Accordā¦last I checkedā¦they didnāt even have a listing for NGK plugs for her vehicle. I happened to have the number and they didnāt carry that number. The ONLY plug I could get for my wifes Accord was either Autolite or Championā¦Now I didnāt check on the Platinum plugs. Maybe they only carried the platinum plugs. But I donāt see the need for platinum so why pay 4x the price over copper.
Just to add another dimensin to what OK4450 was saying. On July 15th a customer entered my shop needing a fuel pump replaced in his 3/4 ton 4x4 Chevrolet. He insisted that I purchase the part from NAPA. I qouted him a price and he agreed. I changed out the fuel pump and customer paid and left. 2 hours later his truck was brought back to my shop it had quit running. Diagnosis showed no fuel pressure. Called NAPA they sent me a new pump and I changed it again on my dime (no charge to customer). July 30 customer calls @ 7:30 a.m. truck will not start. Closed the shop doors and drove 5 miles to his house. Guess what no fuel pressure. Gave him a ride to work and arranged for a tow. Called Napa and ordered another fuel pump. Dropped the tank, removed fuel pump, verified again that the tank was clean, installed fuel pump #3. This one had a terrible whine and I new the customer would not be happy. Dropped the tank for the 4th time removed Napa pump, called Schucks (CSK) had them send me a CARTER pump, installed it, delivered the truck to my customer. Explained to him what had happened, charged him nothing and gave him a 1 year warranty on the parts and labor. His has been in twice since then for an oil change and the pump is still working perfectly.
Long story short just because it comes from NAPA doesnāt mean it is perfect, and just because it comes from CSK doesnāt mean it is bad.
~Michael
Hereās one I forgot aboutā¦Had to buy a radiator hoseā¦but they only carried the flex typeā¦not the form fitted typeā¦I bought one for my sisters civic and it didnāt fitā¦took it backā¦and had to fight with the manager to get an exchange or refundā¦Becuase thatās the hose they say is suppose to fitā¦but it didnāt. Funny thing isā¦it was for the Radiator I had just bought from them. Turns out the radiator I bought had a different size neck then the OEM radiator. So now try to get a radiator hose that fits. The neck fitting on the engine was a different size then the new radiatorā¦I finially convinced the manager to pull one of the radiators out and compare the fitting sizeā¦Sure enough the hose didnāt fit. They were able to find oneā¦but it was a painā¦Itās that kind of stuff thatās so damn frustrating that I just use Autozone and Pepboys for wax and oil/filters and other stuff along those lines.
Mike:
The Raybestos brake pads found at Pep Boys may well be different then the ones found at Robins. However, Raybestos makes 10 different pads for the front of a 96 Honda Accord. So it is highly possible that the two sets you compared were different grades. You can buy the exact same grade pad at Pep-boys, Autozone, CSK that Robins carries but you may have to order them. It is unlikely that any parts store is going to carry 10 different versions in stock. In this case it appears Pep-boys stocks a different grade then Robins.
~Michael
Well we are going to add to Michaels that not all CSK parts are bad cuz after today; there is no way you can convince us otherwise.
Now Michael and OK4450 will probably tell all of you different but maybe not. Our Rav4 takes a full water pump. All Toyotas we are told take full water pumps. Toyota and AISIN sell full water pumps. The water pump has a rubber seal in the middle of it so the part you get from Checker is the front half of the full water pump. If the seal breaks after you jam the front half with the other piece; you are toast. If the new half of the water pump fails; you are aslo toast and that is what happened in our case. The turning part (not sure what its called) failed; it starts turning sideways; scraps the timing belt so it starts to wear.
Now we dnot know why Checker is selling half a water pump as it makes no sense to us to sell half a one when you need the entire pump to work. We are also told by our regular mechanic that the leaks in his experience are from the back half so if you use Checker parts you are already screwed as the back half is not sold at the stores. FYI the whole water pump costs $20 more so again with a 3 1/2 labour job why not go with the full water pump ? especaily when you have a timing belt engine? so why is Checker doing this when if either part goes ; you can screw up the engine bad and have an even bigger repair!!! which according to Michael isnt covered by Checkers warrantee?
So this water pump goes; scraps the timing belt so we had to replace that too. $453 twice is our bill so you can bet we were bitching at Checker.
There is no way we would buy anything but filters and oil after this from anyone except NAPA especially if we are in a rural area. We would rather wait for the best part then deal with this nonsense for a second time.
The asst manager at the Checker isnt too swift in the first place and then he doesnt beleive its the wrong part and it lasted 11000 miles so how could it be the wrong part and the list goes on.
Sorry to say this but all you mechanics who regularly visit this sight should stop using Checker / CSK period and you need to be telling customers what is going on with the parts as this is one customer who doesnt fool around with junky parts especialy when its this critical. Yes we do expect a storm of protests from Michael and ok4450 but this it the reality of Checker and we realy dont care where you are in this country either. Its worse in rural areas as MIkeinNH already confirmed to yāall. We find it very hard to beleive that they sell any good parts including belts even if they are from the same manufacturer as the ones Napa sells after this nonsense we went through with our beloved SK. Yes this is irrational we know but this is SK.
Thanks to all of you for helping us and our beloved SK is back running so we can get back to doing our delivery work.
Cappy ; you got our name figured out; how we dont know but you did. You are quite correct in we had to get to the root of the problem. We still arent buying any parts from Checker and it doesnt matter if its rebranded or not; its Checker.
MikeinNH; our car also takes platimum plugs but they last 60,000 miles so its just easier to get them then deal with the other brands when we get the tune up done. YOu are right dealing with anyone but NAPA is a pain in the rear so we travel across town to get SK fixed and we drive to NAPA to get any replacement parts and SK runs quite nicely.
This is like watching the Twilight Zone; the only thing missing is Rod Serling.
Mike, youāre dead wrong about chain store being only for DIYers. Every one of them here deliver daily to every shop in town, small or large, and including the dealers.
Every time Iāve gone into NAPA Iāve had to stand in line behind these āDIYersā.
If I wanted a rear ball joint for an 87 Accord I would probably go here; like Iāve done in the past.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/EW3/ProductDetail.do?id=2129324281&line=BA&itemNumber=101-4714&manualReplCategoryIndex=41&vehicle=1987HONDAACCORDDX4-1955%202.0L%20SOHC&bid=1190861741560&cycleCount=737¤tPage=4
OP, youāre not mechanically inclined and appear to have a hard time grasping this. Consider this point.
These chain stores are publicly held companies with shareholders and their business model does NOT promote the sale of defective parts. If any of them wind up with a bad part you can bet it will be gone quickly.
This is a litigation happy country and if they sold ābad partsā the class-action suits would have been filed years ago.
The same idiotic statements are also made about Fram filters with no basis in fact.
As to your water pump, you did NOT get half a pump. The pump and gasket fit onto a front cover. The cover is NOT part of water pump. This is what your pump looks like; in its entirety.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=A1C&MfrPartNumber=A5543153&PartType=54&PTSet=A
Lastly, and since I always state there is more to the story you NOW mention a radiator with a hole in it leading to coolant loss last June.
Loss of coolant means what? Overheating to some degree and - lack of coolant circulating through the water pump.
Overheating and lack of coolant circulation can do what? It can ruin water pump seals. Imagine the xxxx out of that.
By your own admission youāre not mechanically inclined so maybe this is why youāre having a difficult time following it.
I noticed in your list of available suppliers on a water pump and housing the infallible NAPA was not on there.
The reason aftermarket suppliers do not sell this pump as an assembly is because the thermostat housing has no movable parts. It does not wear out.
You said ?The water pump has a rubber seal in the middle of it so the part you get from Checker is the front half of the full water pump. If the seal breaks after you jam the front half with the other piece; you are toast.? If a water pump ever leaks at this joint it is do to improper installation (Jamming it together as you put it) or the gasket has rotted away from age.
Also if you think for one minute that Toyota or Aisin will warranty the labor on a water pump replacement 11,000 miles after installation you are nuts. They are going to give you a warranty that only covers the cost of the part.
You said ?The turning part (not sure what its called) failed; it starts turning sideways; scraps the timing belt so it starts to wear.? The shaft turns inside a bearing. If the bearing fails the shaft is aloud to move side to side. Although there is a slight change of a faulty pump I would lean more towards a problem with the timing belt. If the tensioner and idler pullies for the belt were not checked it is likely they exerted to much lateral force on the pump to tear out the bearing.
In the end CSK does not sell inferior parts they sell the exact same parts as every other parts store. It doesn?t matter which one you go to eventually you will buy a defective part.
~Michael
We dont have to be mechanically inclined to know there is a problem with half a water pump. Our own mechanic who is a Japanese specialist is telling us this. Its not us stating this and if you want his name and number to call him and verify this; he will tell you the same thing and we would be very happy to give it to you to have you go argue with him. We go to a place that regularly repairs Japanese cars.
NOw we saw the water pump. It has 2 parts to it with rubber in the middle. We also saw another water pump while we bitched Checker out. Its also half a water pump so how does this work unless you jam it into the other part that is the other half? it doesnt so why just sell one part of it? and please explain to us why Toyota would sell along with AISIN a full water pump if it wasnt needed. That makes no sense to us. By the way; this site doesnt show a full water pump as this is exactly like the POJ we got from Checker. It also says its $30 with a retail of over $90. Well the part from AISIN cost $20 more and its a full pump; doesnt have to be jammed in; etc so why go with the POJ when you can have a proper one and one that is most likey to work?
Please dont treat us like we are stupid. We may have not much mechanical appitude but we have picked up a good deal of basic knowledge over the years and some of this is common sense.
Third; we had no overheating car. SK is very well cared for in every aspect of her life. If there was any chance of her overheating we would have had her towed to Casper which was the nearest large city and we have 100 miles of free towing in CO AAA. We certainly arent going to take chances on WY roads that we might get stuck especially after we went through so much with the car case and we had to wait 18 months to afford SK. We also have been driving a long time so we know to avoid overheating the car; what to do to avoid overheating the car; etc. This happened over a year ago too by the way so if a seal had broken due to over heating; we would have had problems alot sooner then 11 months later with all the driving we do.
How many Toyotas have you worked on with similar water pumps? and we have seen other posts on timing belts. We also had a timing belt break 9 or 10 miles from Blackfoot ID in the middle of nowhere on a very dirt road whihc is why we needed to get her fixed in the first place. SK was towed in by the way in case you ask. So we know the issue with the timing belts and the water pumps and yes its that serious and we were very lucky we didnt harm the engine so pls dont give us this grief that we dont know what we are talking about when we have a timing belt on our engine. We dont want junk parts on anything vital especially with us driving so much in the back of no where; in all kinds of weather; etc.
Now why dont you stop giving us a hard time???