I think I have a bad CCRM. Runs way over halfway towards hot when in traffic unless you turn on the a/c which turns on the fans. Anyways, does anybody know how to remove it. It is in between the radiator and the battery on the drivers side. Any idea how much the cost? Thanks
I must admit I have no idea what a “CCRM” is, but I can give some ideas as to what could cause the problem you are having. Some cars have two different coolant temperature sensors, one for the gauge and one for the computer. The fan relay could be bad in a way that allows it to operate when on demand from the a/c. Does the fan ever turn on without the a/c on?
Thanks for the reply Mark. This is the 3.8 liter engine. It only has one sensor for the dashboard and the pcm. The relays are buried in the CCRM, (constant control relay module). It seems that when the vehicle is in driving mode, the PCM controls the fans, (and that works correctly in my vehicle, as long as it’s moving, even at 25-30 mph then it’s fine). If you get stuck in traffic and not moving, then control goes over to this CCRM, which is when I run into trouble. There are two fan speeds, low and high (40 amps and 60 amps). The low speed does not kick on in traffic and the gauge goes about 3/4 way towards hot, then the high speed fan kicks in.
I’m assuming it’s the low speed relay. Anybody have any idea how to get to this?
I don’t personally now the answer to your question, but I’ve found over the years that of asked politely dealer service shops are happy to look up and print an “exploded view” drawing and even detailed instructions.
A relay which is vehicle speed dependent? I don’t think so; but, I will give you a mark for an original idea.
If you go to one of the Windstar forums, you’ll get experiences with the CCRM.
Before you decide to change an expensive part, shouldn’t you find out if it is at fault, first? I would. You?
The temperature gauge indicates “over halfway towards hot”. Is that 3/4 scale? Have you done all the cooling system checks?
On the 3.8L engine, the engine coolant temperature sensor gets power (12 volts, gray/red wire), sends its reading (over a light green/red wire) to the engine computer (pin #38). The engine computer (PCM) sends temperature signal to the dash gauge. There are checks for that:
The low speed action of both fans (simultaneously) is powered by the EDF relay inside the CCRM. There is, also, an EDF Relay Control inside the CCRM which is signaled by the PCM. From the wiring diagram, one can’t determine what type of signal the PCM sends; or, does it ground the dark blue wire?
Your mission, Mr. Champ319, should you decide to accept, is to find out how the solid state EDF Relay Control (inside the CCRM) works, and what type of signal (or, grounding) the PCM performs on the dark blue wire to the EDF Relay Control. Check the signal (voltage) from the engine temperature sensor to the PCM.
Wiring diagram FIG.#5 (You may need to register, there): http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?chapterTitle=Wiring+Diagrams&partName=Chassis+Electrical&pageId=0900c152800ae2e6&partId=0900c152800ae210
To see the wiring diagram for the CCRM, go to your public library Web site (or, visit your library) > Electronic Databases > Reference > Auto Repair Reference Center (ARRC) > site. Go to Wiring Diagrams > Cooling Fans.
Some public libraries have a subscription to alldata.com Web site where you can get wiring diagrams and other car repair information. Ask a librarian, not a barbarian.
I found something on the CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) that might be what you are looking for. It’s for a Mustang; but, it applies to your Windstar: http://www.mustang-tech.org/wiki/94-95_Mustangs_Cooling_System_Diagnostics
It explains how to wire in a manual switch for the low speed setting, if you choose.
The engine coolant temperature is 208F degrees to turn the fans (both fans) on low speed. To turn the fans on high, the turn-on temperature is 228F degrees.
Have you actually measured the coolant temperature with a hand held device? You may not really have a cooling problem.
Maybe, there is no problem with the Ford CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) which controls the power to engine cooling fans. The command control of the two fans is actually, done by the engine computer (PCM).
The two fans turn on when the engine temperature rises (208F degrees LOW speed, 228F degrees HIGH speed). This should be low-speed fans which come on first. You think otherwise. Why? You can determine if the fans are running on low-speed by pulling the fuse which carries power for low speed operation: the 40A H fuse.
You can determine if the two engine cooling fans are running on HIGH by pulling the 60A B fuse. If they turn off when the fuse is pulled, they were.
You have an engine cooling system problem. Fix that before testing the cooling fans operation.
That was exactly what I ended up doing, only with the full 60 amps (high setting).
Works like a charm.
Like I said, as long as the van is in motion (even if it’s less than 30 mph), the fans work great. If you get stuck in a traffic jam (this is Staten Island, NY, it happens alot), then she starts to go over halfway. So I wired a switch from the maxifuse (60 amps) to the fan’s red wire. I put the switch on a blank, (not used) spot, next to the rear vent window controls. If I see it start to creep over the halfway point, I hit the switch for a couple of minutes and it comes right down.
You installed a control switch in the engine high speed cooling fans circuit. You have applied the wrong cure to the wrong ill. The ill is that the engine gets so hot (has the gauge indication of being hot) under very little engine load. The problem is NOT the cooling fans, which are operating as they should. The problem is with the engine cooling system NOT cooling adequately. You need a shop/mechanic to fix the engine cooling system. This summer, when the weather gets really hot, the engine will really overheat.
Thanks again for your reply. I think I left an important piece of info out. It seems to climb over halfway ONLY when I come off of a highway run and then get stuck in traffic. Otherwise, all is fine. So it is not under very little engine load. I have already left it running in my driveway for an hour, just to see what would happen and all is fine.
I believe that this is a design flaw that Ford made in the PCM programming itself. This may be the very reason that the Windstars are noted for head gasket failures. Under certain conditions, they do not turn the fans on in time. If you read the owners manual, it will tell you that under certain conditions, the temp needle may
go over the halfway point and that this is ok as long as it doesn’t go all the way to “H”. In my eyes, anytime a temp needle goes over halfway, THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, especially in an engine that is noted for head gasket problems. I did not want to change the way the vehicle was designed. I researched this and checked and changed everything possible, (thermostat, sending unit, radiator cap, flush and fill). I checked for flow in the radiator and checked the hoses to see if they are under pressure. If this is indeed a design flaw, the only solution is to place a human brain in the equation. It is still wired to the PCM and the fans still turn on at the proper time, most of the time. If they miss the mark, like happens sometimes, and I see it start to climb, I hit the switch for 30 seconds or so. This “breaks the cycle” and I very rarely have to intervene the rest of the day. This beats just sitting there staring at the gauge and saying “Oh look at my engine destroying itself”. I tested it in my driveway with the engine and fan running for 10 minutes, just to see if the fan motor and electrical system can take that kind of beating, (although I will never have to use it that long under real conditions) and it did.
We will see what happens when it gets really hot.
I will be sure to keep you guys posted.
I have the same car with the same problem. I have changed the fan dropping resistor, both sensor for fans, the temp gauge sensor, and control sensor to tunn on fan, thermostat and radiator. My antifreeze is changed every two years and was green just as it went in. The flow looks well, So that tells me the water pump is good. Check the peep hole on the water pump dry. I have check the 40amp and and 15 amp fuses, both ok.
The relay in the ccrm must be bad. I am gong to check it out next week… I brought my car to two service dealer and they told me thats the nature of the car. I do not believe them and will change my ccrm next. I will most likely bring my car to a ford dealer to check the ccrm with their computer…
if you go under the front it is located below the battery you will be able to see it from the bottom easy