Hearing loss has become an epidemic with people under 30. Mainly due to LOUD MUSIC. Either with extremely loud car systems…or with in their ipad type devices. They start when they are in their early teens…and then major hearing loss by the time they’re 30.
People who live in an industrialized society will have hearing loss over their lifetime. The MORE noise you’re subjected to the more hearing loss. Doctors have found that people who’ve lived in deep dark Africa or the jungles of South America - even in their 70’s have little to no hearing loss.
1800 watts is going to produce sound exceeding 120db’s.
I'm usually against the nanny state but this is bordering on criminal. Young parents that have no business raising kids when they can't make adult decisions regarding their child's health and welfare.
A few years ago I was passed by this guy driving his SUV with the stereo blasting. I had my windows rolled up (it was winter). He had his rolled up…and I was able to hear him a long ways away. And as he passed me (doing about 90)…I saw in the rear seat of his truck two small kids in car seats. It was one of the most disturbing things I ever saw. I called the police…and they said there was NOTHING they could do.
What amazes me is, no one would accept someone driving down the road with headphones, feeling it was unsafe. But few seem to care when drivers play their stereo in their car so loud it makes them just as oblivious to their surrounding as wearing headphones. IMHO, the operation of a car safely depends on all your senses.
WTH, hearing aids are a big business too.
There is a another careless Parent action I’m cognizant of.these parents hauling the infants and toddlers around on riding lawnmowers for fun,these devices in my opinion can damage a young persons hearing,not to mention what would happen if the Kid fell off the mower-Kevin
ok,…ok,…ok,…I get that my hearing can be lost, I know that,… its not like I’m trying to make full use of the amp, hell I got a great deal on some speakers and amp hell when Audioplus wanted to charge me $480 for a 8inch sub/amp/installation, I installed it myself amp purchase was 160 with 3 year warranty, and speakers $112 from pawn shop with 2 factory year warranty, and with help from a friend of mine who works at Best Buy who’s out of town now so my system is pushing, but I’m mainly just trying to prevent my lights from dimming and killing my battery that’s all…just seeing what I need to upgrade or change but thanks for the info.
ok,....ok,....ok,....I get that my hearing can be lost, I know that,... its not like I'm trying to make full use of the amp
Then you say this -
but I'm mainly just trying to prevent my lights from dimming and killing my battery that's all
If you’re cranking the system enough to kill your alternator…then you ARE making full use (or close to) of the amp.
If you want to kill your ears go ahead. You have to either get a new high-power alternator…or get more efficient speakers. More efficient speakers is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go.
People think they NEED over 1000 watts to produce thunderous sound. NOT SO. My home amp is a whopping 12 watts. And produces beautiful (can be extremely loud) sound into a fairly large 18x30 family room.
When I was in college a friend of mine owned his own roving Disco. He stored everything in is Ford Econoline van. He did a nice custom job on the interior (carpeted and sound proofed the walls and ceiling). He removed all the electronics when not going to a gig. But left the speakers in the van because they were a bear to move. So one day he decided to hook them up to his truck fm radio. I think the radio put out about 15 watts. The speakers (Altec A7’s - later he sold them and bought Klipsch LaScala - smaller and almost as efficient and loud) had a 106db efficiency rating. So at just 5-10 watts you couldn’t be in the van without blowing your eardrums. At 1800 watts in a small van…it would shatter the van apart in seconds.
@MikeInNH: While I’m sure your 12-watt system is loud, I doubt it can provide much in the way of bass or accurate tracking of fast changes. While a kilowatt might be overkill for most, 12W is certainly the other end of the spectrum IMHO. Naturally it depends on the kind of listening you do. My home system is a modest 120W RMS per speaker output, which is adequate for me, but I wouldn’t want much less when watching movies, etc.
I agree with Mike. Way back when, a buddy and I went and bought exactly the same home set up with the exception of the loud speakers. The idea was to get a deal if we bought two of everything. Didn’t really work out that way but I digress… I got the last pair of high end Marantz and he got something else, it escapes me now. But one thing I do remember quite clearly, the speaker efficiency made a huge difference. Mine were on at the minimum volume setting and blowing out the windows by mid-volume setting on the amp. His hadn’t even turned on yet by mid-volume setting. By then, the distortion in the amp was already noticeable too. All he was doing was wasting energy as heat and producing inferior sound quality.
I realize the OP got a lot of this gear for cheap but buying and installing a huge alternator to power this behemoth is throwing good money after bad IMO. Better to spend it on upgrading critical components and leaving the car alone. The good components you will always have to move from one car to the next. The alternator will stay with the car when it goes to the trash heap…
While I'm sure your 12-watt system is loud, I doubt it can provide much in the way of bass or accurate tracking of fast changes.
And you’d be 100% WRONG. At 12 watts you can’t hear yourself think. My speakers are very efficient (105dbs). I’d be very surprised that your car speakers are more then 90dbs. Which means your amp will have to pumping out well over 100 watts just to equal the sound level my speakers put out at 1 watt. 12 watts on a good efficient speaker can produce thundering deep base.
As for fast switching…you’re using either a Class-B or Class-AB (doubtful), or Class-D. Which means the positive and negative halves of the signal are dealt with in different parts of the signal…thus constantly switching. My home amp is a Tube (300b) Pure Class-A - which means the output signal is a truer representation of what’s inputted… thus no switching. Class A is actually MUCH faster amp then The Class-B or AB or D amps you have.
I got the last pair of high end Marantz and he got something else
If it’s old enough…the high-end Marantz amps back then were also the WE 300b tube (same I’m using today). They are considered by many the BEST sounding amp ever made. But you need very efficient speakers for their mere 12 watts. They got to be so popular in recent years they reopened the Western Electric plant where they were made in the 60’s - to start reproducing them again.
While it’s true that some power is needed to produce accuracy , just like a generator is capable of producing more power then it’s continuous rating, so aren’t most quality amps. I am sure that 12 watts is well be low what the amp is really capable of during these times. Speaker efficiency is indeed to best increase sound levels and destroy your hearing quicker. Regardless, make all the claims you want, 1800 watts is totally unnecessary and for the money you paid and realizing that the environment contributes 50% to total acurracy, I can guarantee that there are lots of lower powered systems that cost less that sound better. Boom box mentality that more is better doesn’t hold water in a car where the environment influence is so poor and now you are chasing the unnecessary tail that could damage your car’s electric system as well as your hearing. Put the stuff on eBay, get what you can and enjoy the sounds of your favorite recordings at reasonable levels.
I love tube amps. I have a couple myself, and they sound amazing. Just don’t ask them to crank out much bass at all but the lowest listening levels. Lower wattage amps just don’t have the grunt for it. Please note that I didn’t say anything about how loud they can be. It doesn’t take much power to make loud–a 5W Radio Shack bullhorn is definitely loud and will damage your hearing too.
True, if your amp is a true Class-A, it probably sounds at least as good and can handle as much as a lesser amp with double or even triple the power. But that’s still not much oomph if you’re trying to render an action scene in a movie, or bass-intensive rock n’ roll, “house” music, etc. Again, it depends on what you listen to and how loud you like it. I’ll bet jazz sounds amazing on your system and would sound horrid on the OP’s system. And I’d bet that whatever the OP listens to would sound awful on your system. (though many would likely argue that it sounds awful anyway) Or maybe not… who knows what kind of speakers he has or how good it sounds, or even what he listens to. Over a KW of energy does give you some flexibility, even if you’re wasting probably half of it due to inefficiencies.
I have no idea how much power the Boston Acoustics factory system in my car cranks out or how sensitive the speakers are. But I’m guessing it’s probably at least 20x more than 12W. You could put the best speakers in the world in there and the most efficient amp you could find, and at 12W, it would struggle mightily to render good sounding audio over engine noise, road noise, wind, etc. There’s a reason it has more than 12W, and it’s not because Boston Acoustics didn’t know what they were doing when they designed it.
So I’m not ragging on your setup or doubting that your home system sounds good, but there is often no substitute for horsepower. Though a KW is overkill IMHO.
I have no idea how much power the Boston Acoustics
Boston Acoustics are very good speakers…but NOT very efficient. They are at best in the high 80’s of db efficiency. They may sound very good with a tube amp…but you’re right they are not going to give you that good deep base with a 12 watt tube amp. You need something at in the mid-90’s or higher.
But that's still not much oomph if you're trying to render an action scene in a movie, or bass-intensive rock n' roll, "house" music, etc.
If you’re using speakers like Boston Acoustics…I’ll agree with you. But you have to look at the whole system. A speaker that has an efficiency rating of 95 dbs or higher will give you EXCELLENT oomph in a movie or that bass-intensive rock. You have to remember that back in the 40’s and 50’s speakers were filling huge theaters with good loud sound to hundreds of people in the audience with just 12 watts. Because that’s all that was available. Some bigger theaters use to bi and tri amp to get more power, but solid state amps weren’t available yet.
@MikeInNh
I think when we are talking about a car, things are a little different. And while I agree with the general assessment of speaker efficiency and it’s importance in home speakers, that application to cars does not exist in the same way. The box, crossovers and drivers and the room together determine the efficiency and accuracy of a home speaker. The car is the box, and even those drivers with separate trunk hogging boxes, are at the complete mercy of the doors and panels they are assigned to and all drivers are at the mercy of the car interior as far as reinforcement and accuracy are concerned. My son ran a store that specialized in custom installations and to do it right wasn’t a matter of buying off shelf drivers.
There are so many limitations with cars, the manufacturer or a real good install shop are the only ones who can do it justice. Buying on sale drivers and amp and hoping they match is obviously a false premise. If the car “needed” that kind of power to deliver just decent sound, it would be designed for it. A Camry doesn’t and all OP is doing is getting loud junk sound and there are NO suggestions we can make that will do anything to mask that situation. Even more efficient speakers will sound just as boomy without being calibrated and matched. And, as soon as one person climbs into the car, the interiior volume as a percent of the total available for bass reinforcement changes dramatically. Your speakers could become instantly less efficient with a change in accuracy. That is just one aspect of car environment problems. Home speakers in a larger room don’t have that problem.
The home environment is so different then cars, imho, you can take little from one and use it in the other. It’s a very consistent environment as far as reflective surfaces are concerned and with the right evaluation tools, you can get consistently decent sound, but never consistently great sound. That is reserve for custom installations in a home. With out it, in a car, you get loud noise !
The box, crossovers and drivers and the room together determine the efficiency and accuracy of a home speaker
You can buy speakers that are efficient. I’m not saying you can drive them with 12 watts…but you can easily drive them to ear-drum shattering levels with less then 100 watts. I was showing that you don’t need 1800 watts of electronics to produce loud thundering sound. So if 12 watts can fill a large room…then 100 watts can easily fill a much smaller car.
As far as sound quality goes for a car…very very limited. You’re not going to get really good clean pure sound inside a vehicle.
I agree that it is overkill. Mike, let me add something about the wattage. When we talk about 12 wpc in a home reciever vs 1800 total watts in a car amp, we are comparing apples to oranges in two totally different environments. 1800 watts is in a car environment measured at 4 ohms and yours is probably measured at 8 ohms resistance in a home reciever. Because the car environment is so inefficient with such a small reinforcement area, much more total wattage is often needed for the same sound levels. Besides, the 1800 watts compared to yours may be totally bogus. The 1800 watts may be maximum output not continuous and your reciever may actually have a near comparable max output and while the 12 watts may sound low, high end recievers are rated very conservatively because of accepted distortion levels too.
Your reciever could easily be rated much higher then it is when done at high distortion levels accepted in an amp in a cars environment. So, you now have max vs continuous and distortion levels that influence comparison of the wattage. So, we do completely agree on the car environment being a poor place to deliver good sound and regardless of how it’s measured, it is over kill…
@dagosa…You’re making a lot of generalities and assumptions on things I NEVER SAID.
Yes I know my 12 watts system is 8ohms…and I know that most car systems are 4 ohms. So what. That has NOTHING to do with the point I was trying to make. Of course you can’t compare a home environment to a car environment…I made no such comparison. All I showed was that with more efficient speakers you can achieve much higher sound levels with a lot less wattage.
JBL makes a decently efficient 6x9 coaxial mounted in a small enclosure like a car door with an efficiency rating of 94db’s. You do need more power to overcome the road noise…but NO WHERE NEAR 1800 watts. I had the Bose package in my 98 Pathfinder. And even that system was only 200 watts. And Bose aren’t noted for their efficiency. Back in the 80’s I owned an F-150 4-door pickup. I mounted a 6x9 JBL coaxial in each of the doors. I had a whopping 15 watts 4-ohm per channel. At less then half volume I could rattle my neighbors windows. So I stand by my statement that you CAN get decently efficient speakers in a vehicle and produce thundering sound with well less then the 1800 watts.
Your reciever could easily be rated much higher then it is when done at high distortion levels accepted in an amp in a cars environment.
I’m rarely if ever pushing the amp over the 10 watt range. When you have speakers with a sensitivity of over 100db’s you need very very little wattage to produce thundering sound.
As far as accuracy goes in a car/truck…it’s almost impossible to achieve. I don’t even try. That’s why I won’t spend a lot of money in car audio. If you want to listen to good sounding music…you can’t beat a good home system. Even a small decent home system will beat out almost any car audio system costing many times more.
Mike
Let me be clear…I said "let me ADD something about wattage ! " it had little to do with what you have said.
As far as commenting on your wattage, yours is continuous wattage. We don’t know how the car wattage was measured…remember I said, I was adding a little to the discussion and regardless of how it is measured, it was way too much. That we agree upon. Some readers might think we are comparing 12 watts to 1800 watts. I get that you know the difference…but others may not, again adding to your remarks. You’re so sensitive ;=)
In reality, the number 1800 watts on a car amp has little to do with the discussion as we really don’t know how it’s measured. What is important is, it’s blowing fuses. Any system that draws that much current is over kill, could esily do hearing damage and is totally unnecessary, and the wattage is a meaningless measurement ! it’s just an advertising gimmick comparing one amp with another from the same manufacturer…a lot like many home receivers.