Can diesel fumes kill you?

General Discussion
41

"Diesel engines produce around 0.5-1.0 grams of carbon monoxide per brake horsepower per hour. This translates to thousands of ppm CO.

A few hundred ppm CO will kill."

Yes, but so what? The thousands of ppm figure is for the exhaust itself. Yes, it’s a bad idea to breath solely from an exhaust pipe. In a large room that’s going to dilute down pretty quickly.

I have cherry-picked the following from CDC to contradict your knicker-twisted assertion about a few hundred ppm:

“It has been stated that a 1-hour exposure to 1,000 to 1,200 ppm would cause unpleasant but no dangerous symptoms, but that 1,500 to 2,000 ppm might be a dangerous concentration after 1 hour [Henderson et al. 1921a, 1921b]. In general, a carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) level of 10-20% will only cause slight headaches [NIOSH 1972] and a COHb of 11-13% will have no effect on hand and foot reaction time, hand steadiness, or coordination [Stewart and Peterson 1970]. At a COHb of 35%, manual dexterity is impaired [Stewart 1975]. At 40% COHb, mental confusion, added to increasing incoordination, precludes driving an automobile [Stewart 1975]. A 30-minute exposure to 1,200 ppm will produce a COHb of 10-13% [NIOSH 1972].”

42

Similarly for many years the tobacco industry argued that exposure to smoke could cause “unpleasant but no dangerous symptoms” for second hand smokers. Arguably true for short term exposure. But don’t you think that the issue for anyone seeking employment in aviation maintenance where diesel engines are the norm for support vehicles that long term exposure be the important consideration ?

I work with diesel power equipment, some of which are stored inside. As soon as they are started, outside they go for for warm up.

To argue otherwise is a shortsighted “pro tobacco” like stance. The argued safety of a “few hundred parts per million” is under the faulty assumption that workers get no exposure to these cancer causing particulates elsewhere. I hear your argument, but it’s just that, and workers should not be exposed to combustion exhaust from diesel engines in enclosed environments.

If they personally want to take the chance as I may, it’s my decision. I would hope it’s not part of one’s job description, and the teacher is “dead” wrong.

43

What I am saying is that the only difference between Palin and a pit bull isn’t the lipstick. The real difference between Palin and pit bull is that a pit bull doesn’t quit. Her resignation speech sounds like she is on a bad acid trip.

44

@dagosa - Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

For your information, the EPA inventory of ALL SO2 sources in the U.S. for 2002 amounts to 14.64 million tons per year, while their SO2 estimate for ALL “On-road and nonroad mobile sources” is 750,000 tons for that year. That’s cars, diesels, earth-moving tractors, mining equipment, farm tractors/harvesters/seeders/combines, etc.

These annual emission estimates amount to 40,106 tons per day for ALL SOURCES, and 2,055 tons/day for ALL mobile sources… not just automobiles. And these emissions are for 2002, while controls of all sources of SO2 have been ratcheting down since then, with low sulfur and ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel coming into widespread usage in more recent years.

Source: http://cfpub.epa.gov/eroe/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail.viewMidImg&lShowInd=0&subtop=341&lv=list.listByAlpha&r=209840#10607

So dagosa overestimates car emissions by at least a factor of 40, and that’s assuming all mobile emissions of SO2 are due to automobiles. And the true factor is likely more than 100 to 1. In fact, the “81,000 tons per day by cars” is two times the total of ALL SO2 sources in the U.S. for 2002.

As for those making fun of Reagan’s statement about diesel emissions and trees, you should be ashamed of yourselves for misrepresenting the facts there, too. But the Sierra Club president and you fine folks apparently choose to make the incorrect assumption that he was comparing one tree to one diesel engine. In point of fact, there are literally billions of trees, and a considerably smaller number of diesel engines.

Reagan’s statement refers to the total emissions of volatile organic hydrocarbons emitted by trees, which produces the ‘smoke’ of the Smokey Mountains and a natural haze that predates man’s invention of the internal combustion engine, and rivals the emissions of diesel engines today.

45

Yes, I’m quite sure that Mr. Reagan was well-schooled on the science of volatile organic hydrocarbons.

46

Our gas alert monitors go off at 200 ppm co. If you want I can test the exhaust from a diesel. CO is heavier than other gasses, yes diesel has a much reduced CO vs a gasoline engine but to make such a statement flies in the face of logic. Use an exhaust hose for all vehicles, better safe than sorry. Dare I go into dihydrogen monoxide
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

47

“Dare I go into dihydrogen monoxide”

You don’t need to do that.
Most of us are aware that this stuff can drown you.
Oh, the humanity!

;-))

48

Try that at 8 hours and see where the LD50 ppmCO is.

For a 20kW genset, at 50% effieciency, 40kW=53.6 bHP =53.6 grams CO/hour =53.6/454=0.12 lb CO

Assume a garage of 3,000 cubic feet, 13.5 cu ft per lb = 222lb air

.12/222 *1,000,000=535ppm by weight CO for each hour run. That’s dangerous for even one hour, particularly among people with even mild cardiac or diabetic conditions.

By all means, if you think this will not harm you, go for it. After adding in NOx production and unburnt hydrocarbons, I doub’t I’ll be further accused of getting my knickers in a twist.

49

Are you sure that they were saying diesel? I know that many indoor forklifts run on natural gas and as far as I know, the natural gas byproducts are much less than other fuels.

50

I find your condescending comment most objectionable, as you obviously have no idea of the accomplishments and intelligence of this man. Of course, that is no surprise if you get most of your information from the main stream media and NPR radio news.

Despite liberal commentator’s portrayal of him as a know-nothing doofus, Mr Reagan was ‘well-schooled’ enough to compose and write his own speeches, unlike the current occupant of the White House.

He also had a successful career in the movies and television, headed one of the biggest unions in the country [Screen Actors Guild], served as Governor of California, and President of the United States for 2 terms. Oh yeah, and through his foreign policy, he brought down the USSR [despite the best efforts of the left to give credit for that to Gorby].

You can read a compilation of the letters he wrote in “Reagan: A Life in Letters” by Ronald Reagan.

51

I will not attempt to disabuse you of the fallacious information spouted about RR by various Republican PR people. You have your views, and I have mine. Never the twain shall meet.

Such is the nature of a democracy, where we are allowed to agree to disagree.
Have a good day.

;-))

52

For a conservative, you seem to have a very thin skin. I thought only liberal PC police were so easily offended.

You know, Colon Powell credits Gorby with ending the cold war. Is he on the left?

Here, you might enjoy this.

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53

Can also waterlog you(sometimes can be great fun;-))-Kevin

54

Simply ask her to prove her words. While waiting for her test results, find a college that hires sane instructors and demand a tuition refund from your present school.

55

Check this out.

<embed src=“http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/onn_embed/embedded_player.swf"type="application/x-shockwave-flash” allowScriptAccess=“always” allowFullScreen=“true” wmode=“transparent” width=“480” height="430"flashvars=“image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theonion.com%2Fcontent%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2FZOMBIE_REAGAN_ARTICLE_11_23_09.jpg&videoid=99422&title=Zombie%20Reagan%20Raised%20From%20Grave%20To%20Lead%20GOP”>
Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP

56

She might as well be saying, “don’t worry about grizzlies in this area, totally safe cause they’re non poisonous”.