The dealer should make this righ. Their mistake, their fix.
Print the correct used car label?
The EcoBoost engine cover has “EcoBoost” molded into the cover, I don’t see anything on the 3.5L cover. Most people aren’t going to remove the cover and some won’t read the engine information label.
A couple of Ford dealers around here allow you to see the original window sticker (online) for the used Fords newer than 2007. Would be a better way to verify what equipment the vehicle had than most dealer generated stickers that I’ve seen.
he dealer should make this righ. Their mistake, their fix.Um, buyer can't be bothered to read the document he's signing--thereby making it the dealer's fault that he's lazy? Uh, ok.
That’s bizzarre that buyer’s failure to utilize due diligence is somehow laid at the feet of the seller. As Tony Montana put it, Oh, so I’m the bad guy here?!
I’d like to think nobody would have the chutzpah to pull this stunt, but I’ve seen it done. Folks buy a $250,000 house without once consulting ANY map that would tell that it’s on the final approach path of an airport…for the last 70 years. They then place blame for the noise, somehow, on the flight school, NOT on the man in the mirror :neutral:
meanjoe75fan: Bad things happen to clueless people but since it can’t possibly be their fault someone else must be held responsible. About 10 years ago an idiot had a $500,000+ McMansion built on top of a hill directly under the main runway final approach of the municipal airport that was established in 1924. He demanded the airport point their runway in a different direction!
Who do you think should know more about the vehicle, the buyer or the salesperson? If the salesperson had not been reinforcing the mistake, then I’m all with you guys saying it’s caveat emptor. People often rely on “experts” in making decisions and courts look poorly on those that misrepresent their goods…disclaimers or not.
Guys - this is not about being disappointed that the features I thought the car had were not there. I got a car with the features I wanted, except for the 2.0T engine (more on that later).
I may have been sloppy on this purchase, but I was acting in good faith in dealing with a dealership who is part of a multi-state corporate conglomerate with many new car dealerships across all makes. I had no reason to suspect they would mislead me, intentionally or otherwise. Also, I know cars and engines - I do all my own oil changes, suspension replacements, spark plugs, etc.
My main point is that, when picking a used vehicle, you negotiate upon the price of the car on the lot - most of us don’t typically cherry-pick the features on used vehicles when lot-shopping.
Therefore, we might not check for every feature on the car, but rather just the ones that are important to our needs. So, when calculating my offer using multiple online resources, I of course factored in the features listed on the sticker, whether I wanted those features or not - at this point in the negotiations, that window sticker is the most comprehensive piece of information about the vehicle. And, to this date, that sticker contains much more information than a Carfax or the dealer contract regarding the features of the vehicle.
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This car was purchased from a large dealer. There was a used car sticker on it, which did list all the features but DID NOT include a VIN number.
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I really didn’t care about the presence of any of these features. I liked the car, decided to sit down and calculate price based upon the information the dealer had given me. The 2.0T engine is about $1000 more than the V6, and the other features listed on the sticker which the car ended up not having add a little more to the MSRP and used values. Again, I could not care less if the car can park itself or not, but realize that either way, the price will reflect the presence of those features, and that’s how I factored my amount to offer.
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having already driven the car, I determined the engine (despite it supposedly being a turbo 4) was plenty powerful and refined. For those of you who just can’t believe that someone couldn’t tell the difference between a 2.0T and a V6, we’re not talking about WRX STI turbos here! These turbos are designed for efficiency and refinement, and an even power band and lack of any lag.
When I looked under the hood of the car while at the dealer (first or second time I’d looked under the hood of a new Explorer), I had no way to see what type of engine was in the bay as it’s entirely covered by an engine shield/insulator, and I had no way to lift it off. There are no markings on this cover to allow one to determine what engine is under there, nor can you see the plugs or wires/coils.
What’s important here is that the sales rep knew that I was interested in the 2.0T, and kept trying to upsell me the idea of the engine during the first test drive (with him in the car, ugh) and even after I had purchased the car and he drove me across the street to the gas station to fill it up for me. Yep, after the sale, he was still talking about how the turbo never even kicked in during his normal city driving.
- I realized that this was the V6, as on a Sunday, 1 day before a long road trip, and only 1500 miles after purchasing it, the oil indicator light went off! The dealership doesn’t even change fluids before reselling. I bought the 2.0T engine oil filter and oil, started to change it myself, and lo and behold, the filter didn’t fit. So, I monkeyed around for 5 minutes to remove the engine cover without ruining it, and finally saw the Duramax V6 stamp on the engine. (The 2.0 and v6 engine oil filters are completely incompatible.)
I know the difference between a V6 and a 4-cylinder. If you know anything about new cars, however, you know that without carrying some tools on you, you’re not going to be looking at the engine itself while on the dealer lot - you’re going to be looking at a thin sheet of plastic or foam called the engine cover or insulator.
Here’s what you see under the hood of a 2015 V6 NA Explorer: https://www.google.com/search?q=engine+bay+of+v6+ford+explorer&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS577US577&espv=2&biw=1391&bih=782&tbm=isch&imgil=He-X5Xl9ltJkpM%3A%3B1ZtSAVcsbv-_SM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.carpages.ca%252Fblog%252F2011%252F08%252F31%252F2012-ford-edge-and-explorer-gain-ecoboost-power%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=He-X5Xl9ltJkpM%3A%2C1ZtSAVcsbv-SM%252C&usg=__5Jv_iO95nC9yuOZN3JFtj2d7mcU%3D&ved=0CCYQyjdqFQoTCJrntNn4ickCFYrjJgodBXUBxg&ei=ewdEVtq9IorHmwGF6oWwDA#imgrc=tFQ31DCUtoAElM%3A&usg=__5Jv_iO95nC9yuOZN3JFtj2d7mcU%3D
You cannot simply remove that cover without pulling off the oil cap and working for a few minutes, especially if you’ve never done it before.
...1 day before a long road trip, and only 1500 miles after purchasing it, the oil indicator light went off!
So, you never checked the oil level after you bought the vehicle?
@sCARed
One thing you CAN do, even if the engine is under a massive cover . . .
Read the underhood emissions sticker, which will list the engine displacement. If you’d done that, you would have realized you were not dealing with a 4 banger with 2 liters displacement
In any case, good that you did actually pop the hood before buying. Many people don’t even do that much
You must not be a car person. You don’t change the oil because the oil level is low, you change it (especially nowadays) because the car’s onboard diagnostic tells you it’s time to change it. That’s what happened 1500 miles after it left the dealer’s lot.
Looking at a dipstick at the point of purchase would have simply told me the oil had 500-1,000 miles or more on it, not that it had 6500 miles on it.
I’ll take that as a “no.”
I’m a car person and I can tell you that if you put all of your faith into a dashboard oil life monitor you may well regret it at some point.
Those who have been around this forum for a while may, or may not, remember the sordid tale about the lady and her new Chevy Traverse. She put all of her eggs into an OLM basket also.
This thread has taken some “interesting” turns
OP said he popped the hood but couldn’t see the engine under the cover . . . fine
Reading the underhood sticker would have listed the engine displacement, at which point he would have known it’s NOT the 2 liter turbo four he wanted. At which point he could have said “This is not the car I’m interested in. The deal is off. I’m not signing anything.”
“You must not be a car person”
Those could be viewed as fighting words, but I’m not the one it was directed at
“You don’t change the oil because the oil level is low, you change it (especially nowadays) because the car’s onboard diagnostic tells you it’s time to change it.”
Only a NON-car person would use that logic, in my opinion
What if you don’t drive the car much at all, and 2 years have gone by, and according to the OLM, you’re not due yet. And maybe you’ve only made short trips to church and the corner grocery store . . . ?!
There are a whole lot of things in this thread that suggest to me that the OP simply wasn’t paying attention to what he was buying and, after taking delivery, was upset at not having the features he wanted… like the self-parking feature in the original post. He’d now like to reverse the transaction, or get compensation he feels he’s owed, as suggested by his having contacted his state’s atty general’s office. The AG’s office apparently felt he lacked a case.
Or something at the dealer pxxxed him off, and his mistrust of the dealer has caused him to want some form of revenge.
These are the only possible reasons I can see for the OP to have persisted in his quest. IMHO he needs to simply accept that he has the vehicle for the price he signed for and move on. Obsession can cripple a man. There was this blond… 
1 day before a long road trip, and only 1500 miles after purchasing it, the oil indicator light went off!
That statement is confusing, it sounds as though there is an oil light that should be on and if it turns off you need an oil change?
What you really witnessed was perhaps the “Change engine oil soon” or “Oil change required” message displayed. This proves that during recon the tech failed to reset the maintenance reminder but does not prove the oil was not changed. Was there an indication on the oil filter that suggested the oil was not changed?
BTW, I would have changed the oil after purchase to ensure the correct oil is in the engine.
@sCARred you may disagree with my opinion of the car dealer industry (page 4) but that won’t change things. Half the salesmen are nothing more than parking lot attendants fishing for a commission while others take their career seriously.
The $10,000 question is if you rely on the guidance of someone less qualified than yourself are they responsible for oversights like this?
I questioned the guy at my dealer that generates the used car information labels, it seemed unlikely that someone would inspect and list 40 features and options on each vehicle on the lot to create a used car label. He told me they have a program that lists the option packages that were available on each vehicle (when new) and he selects the one that matches the features seen on the vehicle. This produces the long list of options/features found on the label. One can understand that this is not without occasional error.
If you know anything about new cars, however, you know that without carrying some tools on you, you're not going to be looking at the engine itself
As you stated in your opening thread (see below)…the 2.0T engine was very important to you. Anyone who knows anything about cars would have checked to see if it truly was the right engine. There are other ways to check besides removing the covers.
My dad was a born skeptic…and he passed that trait to me. I don’t care how friendly the salesman is or how many free donuts I can have in the showroom. I take the attitude that they all lie through their teeth…so I verify EVERYTHING.
It even had the 6 cylinder engine, and the sticker had claimed the 2.0T (I do a lot of highway miles, so this was important for fuel economy - and the 2.0T is a $995 upcharge over the 3.5 V6, MSRP).
I think the OP has a valid claim against the dealer. How to get satisfaction is the question? Since this is a used car a few miles more on the odometer doesn’t affect the value in a significant way. I think the dealer should take back the car and refund the money. Costs of titling and registration may be on the buyer however. Then if the dealer can locate a car with the features, motor, and options that the buyer wants they can start over and make a new deal on a different car.
If the dealer isn’t cooperative, then a law suit is really the only other option available to the OP. I feel the OP can list damages enough to warrant a suit. There also is the issue of dealer liability in advertising a car and selling it with the wrong information presented to the buyer. That could lead to punative money added to the actual damages.
A large corporate dealer does not like to have lawsuits against them. Bad for the PR and they have plenty of assets so punative damages can be high. If the OP lives in a major TV market contact the stations consumer affairs reporter. In NYC “Better get Bacaro” of WNBC.