Dear Tom and Ragy,
What is this “new” gas HHO (diHydrogenOxide) that is being advertised (Popular Science Feb’08 "The Science of Fuel Economy is here – 121MPG). I smell BOGUS with a capital B. Or have you tried it yet and have a different opinion.
Thanks Dr. Dennis
DiHydrogen Monoxide (H2O) is just water.
It is just an attempt at humor. No one really falls for it.
Or do they?
Yeah…we are forced to drink dihydrogen oxide, and furthermore, we are expected to breathe nitrogen. This is outrageous!!!
Check out this web page…it is no surprise that snake oil salesmen prosper!
I believe that I’d like to meet the model. No, no - the one at the top of the page in the baseball jersey. ;^)
I have read a lot about how this is a hoax, but does anyone have proof, or just theories? There is a guy that states he is a chemist. So am I, and the first rule of science is to have proof for any claims. I understand that this process is skewed to the energy required side, but has anyone talked with a person that has been scammed? I mean if I paid all this money for something, and hung all my hopes that it would work, and it didn’t. I would be the first person on here explaining how it is a scam. Is there anyone that can show me proof that this does not work?
People keep telling you this…if it worked, automakers would be using the technology. There is not some huge conspiracy. If they could advertise a new technology to quadruple gas mileage, don’t you think they would?
I clicked on the link and actually read part of it…It’s is so full of sh*t. All hype and sell. One guy was claiming that it was better then the 17% gas mileage increase he achieved from putting magnets on his fuel line.
They’re probably too embarrassed to admit they spent all this money on a hoax.
“… show me proof that this does not work?”
You’ve got things backwards, justaguy, and really, you ought to know better. It is up to the scientist or inventor (or his business manager) to provide the proof of success. He can do so in many ways. The strongest proof comes from publication of his results in a reputable scientific journal and to have these results confirmed, verified, and duplicated by independent scientists.
It is not up to members of the public to refute unsubstantiated claims. You seek a denial from Joe Sixpack? His silence is somehow meaningful to you? Do you still have high hopes for a patently bogus process to be successful simply because nobody will admit he got suckered by it? That’s not how science works.
Summary: These hydrogen generators, Brown’s gas machines, etc, have never been shown to live up to their claims as mpg extenders. The only sound conclusion is that they are all worthless.
Steve,
One small problem. It is the consumers job to discredit any claims, hence the use of these message boards. In a free market society the terms “buyer beware” or caveat empthor (sp) ring throughout. It is up to the buyer to decide if the claims made are worthy. As for your statement about the business manager’s job to prove it, all of the sites have countless claims of “real” world success. The science has been proven countless times. Seperating hydrogen from water is a very basic experiment. The issue here is in the application. I am not here to argue validity or to split hairs on scientific method. I simply would like to meet someone who has applied this science to their automobile, and hear first hand the amount of damage caused, or bennifits if any. I agree paying $500 or more for a simple PVC pipe or jar with a couple of electrodes in it is a scam. I just was looking for some real world data. If you have not hooked it up to your car, or know of a person that did, telling me it is a scam is no better than the web sites telling me it works.
The science has been proven countless times. Seperating hydrogen from water is a very basic experiment.
But the energy to separate hydrogen from water is more energy then you’ll get from using hydrogen as a fuel.
As for your statement about the business manager’s job to prove it, all of the sites have countless claims of “real” world success.
That is NOT proof. As a engineer any white papers I’ve written are published for pear review. What is published at this website is NOT scientific or proof. It’s advertisement…nothing more.
I just was looking for some real world data.
You want real world data??? Buy it and find out for yourself. Isn’t that simple. Personally I don’t know any car guy who would be gullible enough to buy it. But go ahead…knock yourself out.
If you have not hooked it up to your car, or know of a person that did
So you’re saying you DON’T believe the HUNDREDS of testimonies the web site has…Yet you still want to believe that this could possibly work???
Then my initial premise is true! You are one of those chaps who is willing to accept the possibility of all miracle products, snake oil, patent medicine, seances, etc, until someone comes forth and debunks each and every claim and every new twist they come up with. Well, suit yourself. It’s your money.
Oh yeah. You asked for some sort of scientific proof regarding application of these hydrogen generators, one way or another. The proof has been around for about 175 years. Catch up with the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics.
if you want the truth, and wont accept anything but an owners/operators experience or opinion, you should look for those opinions. good luck finding them though! this seems to be the weak link in the honesty and ‘proof’ which is printed on the web sites espousing these scams…er i meant products.
yes it is true. i think they are a scam.
until, and unless proven by a reputable, dependable source that will continue to be MY opinion.
YOUR opinion can be formed from whatever theory, and experience you care to consider.
has ANYONE on cartalk EVER heard/read/seen this proof? not likely. not that us regulars on here mean anything, but if anything is this sufficient, proficient, and effective don’t you think the real proof would be in the mass marketing/use and promotion by the main stream auto makers, congress and would not the enforcement of the installation and this use be mandated?
And he claims to be a chemist, Steve. Perhaps that means an urban purveyor of illegal controlled substances, to borrow a phrase from our friend VDC…
Ok, justaguy…I’ll admit it. I bought one of these things and it decreased my mileage and then blew up my engine. Happy?
So it is obvious my problem, since I felt that Click & Clack was such a worthwhile program, that one could approach various topics that are relavent. Unfortunately what I found was a group of mean spirited individual, that enjoy piling on with poor grammer, and no real information. The initial question was is this a scam. The general consensus is that it is. The follow up was is there anyone that was dooped by this alleged scam. What we get now is some self important individuals that want to argue about scientific procedures. Yes I know the rules of thermodynamics, which keeps my sceptism levels high. Yes a peer review article would be nice, but it appears that the application is with wrench heads, silly of me that I would find any here. I should have known that there are only engineers and chemists on a car based message board. And yes I am one of those chaps that holds hope that there are answers out there worth looking for. If it were not for people like me we would still be thinking the world is flat etc.