95 Olds 3.1L ciera wagon heater quit


#1

95 Olds ciera wagon 3.1L- heater quit working suddenly (no fan, and I can hear vacume sounds switching from one mode to another) and the fuse seems good whe I did a continuity test!



I wonder if someone could email me a photo showing “exactly” where I can see the blower moter RELAY & FUNIBLE LINK. I am not able to make sense of wiring diagram in my Haynes manual!!!



Please, can someone advise and show me what to look for?



warezaholic

joebarby@netzero.com


#2

I gather everything works except the fan. Does it work at any speed?

There is a set of resistors that vary the speed, it’s somewhere under the dash. They could have failed, or the connector to the resistor bank could have come loose or be corroded. Or the ground for the fan could be bad.


#3

You should be able to run a wire temporarily from the battery to the heater fan motor which I believe is under the hood. If the fan comes on when you do this, then the fan isn’t getting power. If the fan doesn’t come on, be certain that the ground connection from the fan motor to the car has a good connection. If the ground connection is tight and the fan doesn’t come on, you need a new fan motor. The relay bypasses the resistor block when the fan switch is on high. If you have no fan speeds, I would suspect the fan motor.

Alternatively, use an inexpensive test light. One connection goes to the ground. Probe the connection to the fan motor to see if you are getting power. If you are, the fan motor is the culprit.


#4

I do not get fan at any speed!

I had a self proclaimed “honest and fair nad reputable”, mechanic shop to diagnose the problem and they have informed me that the resistor assembly is bad (I’ll check out the motor as described above, but in the case that the motor is good, Can anyone explaine how I can test the resistors? (there three large resistors in a zig-zag pattern), so if someone could e-mail me photo or diagram pointing out the resistance specs for each resistor so I can test them on my multi-tester, I would be greatful! My Haynes does not give the actual resistor layout OR the specs in the wiring diagram!

The resistor set is located under the hood only about 8 to 10 inches to the right, away from the fan and motor!

email attechments to
joebarby@aol.com


#5

Here is a schematic that I found for a 94 hope it’s the same:

http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d800f405c.gif

I would be worried about haveing continuity from the dark blue wire plugs into the resistor to where the Brown, Tan, and Light Blue wires plugs into the resistor. If no continuity at any of where these wires plug into your resistor then replace it. To make myself clearer you will be testing the resistor itself and not the plug. I believe your problem will be where the Dark blue wire connects to your resistor. Any other wire and you should have some kind of fan. I would also check to see if you are getting power to the Orange wire on the relay. Most power relays are located under your hood inside a fuse and relay box. On the cover it should tell you which one is your heater(blower) fan relay. If it’s not there then it will be located inside your car where the rest of your fuses are located. Again if it has a cover it should tell you which relay is for the blower moter. I would also check to see if you are getting power at the red wire on your Blower moter relay. It should have power at all times. If it don’t then your fuseable link is either blown or you have a short. If it is blown then you will need to find out why it blew.

You could also have a bad ground at the fan. To check the plug end of your resistor turn ignition on check voltage at the brown wire. If you have voltage then turn your fan control switch to high and check for voltage at other wires in plug. Do the same at medium and low speed. If you have voltage then you know that your fuse, Heater/A/c Control Assy is good and your fan speed switch is good. If not then one of them is bad and you’ll have futher testing to do.

Post back if any of the above checks don’t work.


#6

I ran a hot wire from the battery positive terminal directly to the fan and it kicked right on, I know the fuse is good so now I have to locate the relaY AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO TEST IT!

My untrained mind (for some reason) is suspecting perhapes a bad wire or connection; I turned the key on and put the blower on high used an electrical test light at the power wire leading to the blower and nothing happened so I guess I have only eliminated the blower motor and the fuse at this stage “Right”? As I understand it, if I use a multimeter on the resistor assembly, I should get some continuity on every resistor in the assembly, “right”? I’ll carefully go over Skypilot’s suggestions and see what I can figure out. I have the wireing schematic for my make and model, but it just does not give me any specs om the resistors or the relay specs or location…

Thanks y’all for all the help!!!


#7

Right.


#8

Skypilot

Well I ran my multimeter across the resistor connectors as you described (holding the one end of the meter against the terminal with the dark blue wire, then touched the other three terminals) and I got a continuity buzz from every terminal, so if I understand your reply, then this rules out the resistors as part of my problem; Right?

NOW, as for the the testing of the relay, my car does not have “BOX” where the relays are located and thus there no labels’ denoting which relay goes to what! My relay’s are simply hanging out in the open on a single bracket (5 of them in a row)on the left front panel or brace in close proximinity to the coolant reservior (directly under the support-cross member) see attached photo! so I can’t tell which one goes to the blower


#9

From the picture I have, the blower relay is the middle relay of 5 relays.

Now I will give you some basic checks. Do you have a 12 volt test light? You will need one.
The relay has numbered terminals, 85, 87, 87A, 86, 30. The relay should show these numbers and locations. If you can’t locate the numbered terminals find the colored wires that go to the relay.

First, with the 12 volt test light…

Check for battery power at terminal number 87/red wire at the relay. It has battery power from a fusible link, hot at all times. It is the power feed for high speed.

  1. With the blower switch in the high position there should be battery power at termnal number 85/orange wire. If there is no power in high position then the blower will not run.

  2. Check for continuity of the relay between terminal #30 and 87A. that is the power circuit from the resistor block. There should always be continuity there, it’s a normally closed switch. When the relay is activated the switch opens and then there is continuity from terminal #87 to 30.

  3. Check with a voltmeter or test light the dark blue wire from the resistor block or terminal #87A, the voltage or brightness of the test light should vary with each setting of the blower switch.

  4. Hook up a test light to battery positive and test the ground circuit for the blower motor.

Frankly it sounds like a ground problem. The power side of the blower is 2 separate circuits so I find it hard to believe both have failed. But a ground problem will affect both circuits.

Good luck.


#10

Thanks Willy

While I was out, I took the car to Murrays and we figured out which relay was the fan relay and you were right, it was the center one! None of the connectors on the relay are numbered! I think from here the mystery may only deepen!

I checked the wires with my 12 volt tester and with the fan on high, I only got power to the orange wire and with the fan switch an all other speeds I got power only to the dark blue wire and at no time do I get power to the red wire!

since the terminals on the relay are not numbered, I can only say that I get continuity between where the dark blue wire and the where the black wire (as I’m looking at the relay and holding it where-as the row of three terminals are at the bottom and the row of two terminals are at the top, I get continuity between the bottom center and the top left terminal!

I tested the relay against a new one at the auto parts and it had the same results, with no fan only high and I can feel (as well as hear) a click when the switch is set to high and that’s when the blower cuts out!

Now, maybe that will clear everything up or else it will only cloud the issue even more, I can’t say and the guy at the auto parts was just as dumbfounded as I was so I hope this finally clears up the problem and I can get to the heart of the problem (as stated in previous posts, I checked and got continuity at the resistors and the fuse)

Thanks and i appreciate all the help
Joe (warezaholic)

I cleaned and greased the plug connectors and now I have fan on all speeds EXCEPT HIGH SPEED!


#11

If the other speeds show resistance, the lower the speed setting= higher resistance reading. If you have zero ohms reading (i.e.: infinity), then you have no continuity through the high speed resistance coil. Burned out or broken coil on the high speed setting. Replace the resistance coil or just don’t run it on high speed until you can replace it. The other situation that I can think of is a broken or frayed wire, most likely between the resistor and the blower motor.


#12

OK. Now we’re getting somewhere.

If there is no power on the red wire you need to check the fusible link on the starter. That red wire is hot at all times from the fusible link. Trace the red wire back to the starter, the problem is there could be a few red fusible links located there so you will need to find which one goes to the blower.

One way to check fusible links is to pull on them, pull hard, if it comes apart you found the burnt one. You can’t tell if a fusible link is burnt by looking at them.


#13

There is no high speed resistance coil, high speed is battery power from a fusible link. Please don’t confuse the situation.


#14

Hi willy, I’m sure profhandy meant well and you said what I was just too shy to say (being new in this area)! Skypilot already mentioned the fusable link in an early post. It was my next item to check but, I just don’t know where to look for it! I hope you’re not saying I need to find it near the engine starter because that area of the engine compartment is extremely difficult to access from above or below and as I recall, the link was just a blip on the wireing diagrem actually it shows as a "single wire with the fusable link just sticking out of the very end of waht seems to be just a single wire (not as a circuit would normally look as a wire loop) (just showing it linked directly to the blower relay and no imdicators about it’s actual location! location. (see diagram)

Joe


#15

Fusible link A is located on the starter. There are 4 fusible links there, so you need to determine which one is to the blower relay.