$295 For The Air In The Tires (Not A Typo)

General Discussion
41

FoDaddy: I would bet that “flat out telling customers it was total BS” probably helped you make more sales. I know when I sense a salesperson is being straightforward and honest and not trying to take advantage that makes me want to deal with that salesperson, and recommend to others as well. Unfortunately, its a rare thing that happens.

On another note, how about inflating the tires with hydrogen instead? Hydrogen is lighter than air which will decrease the weight of the car and increase gas mileage proportionally. Plus there’s an added bonus. If you do have a blowout, you get to be the lead story on the 6 o’ clock news, and perhaps earn your very own Darwin Award too! :smile:

Whoops, did I take that joke too far? I know hydrogen is highly explosive, don’t anyone EVER do that, it was supposed to be a joke everybody.

42

But it’s free range nitrogen, raised humanely by caring stars that went nova in a natural birthing process and given the whole atmosphere to roam in before being cruelly imprisoned in the tires of a Kia.

43
Oh, I don't know that your friend was that far off the mark @the same mountainbike

I do. I had to take way too many liberal arts classes when I got my BS in computer science and a minor in Math. Critical thinking is a requirement for CS and Math. Without it you’ll fail miserably. The only liberal arts class I took that had any real critical thinking was a philosophy class called logic. The kids that aced the class were Engineering and Math majors. The liberal art students struggled just to get a passing grade.

44

I think things are being overgeneralized with regards to what college discipline teaches the best critical thinking. I can point to mechanics who are morons and can’t do anything if the car’s computer doesn’t tell them exactly what to replace. I can also point to mechanics (several of them right here) who are near-geniuses at their ability to problem solve.

I can do the same thing with liberal arts majors.

I think the quality of teaching is more important than the subject being taught as far as critical thinking development goes. If more professors taught like @Triedaq talked about in this thread, we’d have more kids at least exposed to the idea of critical thinking. This is not the first time I’ve wished I’d had him or someone like him as a professor.

I also think that critical thinking skills can be strong in some areas and weak in others – I have a relative who made a pile in computers many decades ago. He retired right about when Windows debuted but is still the only relative I’ve got who never calls me for tech support because he can figure that stuff out by himself easily. I’ve seen him solve issues with his and other people’s computers and his critical thinking skills in that area are superb. He was also a hell of a shadetree mechanic before he got too old to be wrenching on cars anymore.

But some of the BS he forwards me that he got from Facebook is astonishing. He currently thinks the government is covering up the fact that a comet will hit Earth this month and cause a global Armageddon, because someone on the internet told him it’s true. We also, btw, did not land on the moon.

In short, stick him in front of a car or a computer and he’ll use critical thinking to get the thing fixed in no time flat. Ask him to think critically about conspiracy theories and he turns into a total dope.

45

Ed Frugal: They usually try to add all that useless but expensive crap when signing the contract. When I bought a new car in 2002 there was an addition to the MSRP. Additional dealer markup $2,000!!! This was on a car the manufacturer had trouble giving away! I showed them my internet offer from the “mega” dealership 60 miles away and (truthfully) explained I preferred to buy local if they could meet that price. They did.

46

jesmed1: The 78% nitrogen content of our air is quite adequate for the purpose of filling tires.

47

I wonder if CO2 would slow tire pressure loss.
Or SF6?

48

oblivion: Don’t forget “All Natural”, “Gluten Free”, and “Organic”!

49

@shadowfax Thanks for the compliment. I learned a lot of analytical reasoning skills,when, in 9th grade, I started mowing yard for an old time mechanic whose house and shop were about aa half mile from where my family lived. After I mowed the grass I would hang around in the shop and watch him work. He would explain things to me. I loved to watch him trouble shoot a problem car. As well as being paid to mow, I got a free education.

50

That’s how to do it! My dad could fix just about anything with an engine (of course, this was back in the days when people actually knew what “Tappet Brothers” refers to :wink: ) and taught me a lot about working through the problems mentally before throwing parts at things.

… This has proven to be a source of annoyance when talking to service writers. “I think the problem is here - check that” “No, the computer doesn’t say anything about that.” “Yeeeargh!”

51

The market adjustment makes sense in this context- The MSRP has to be some set value no matter where the car is being sold. It should be fairly common knowledge that some areas of the country have higher cost of living/real estate/Etc. So if the MSRP is established as an average SUGGESTED selling price, that dealers operating in high cost areas must charge more in order to make enough profit to stay in business in that area.

The Market adjustment & ADP are means to correct for these differences in regions.

I don’t really see why people get so worked up over any of this anyway. The fact is, it is an ASKING price. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Shop around, find out what the going rate is and then start negotiating…

52

Actually, that said LIFETIME. So, every time the tire pressure sags a bit, for the next 15 years, you run it back to the dealer and tell them, “Top it off!” Ditto if you need a new tire.

I really don’t think $695 is enough dollars for that service. It matters not that nitrogen does nothing for the car or handling. Reminds me of an old commercial for Die Hard or Sear’s shock absorbers or something, with Jack Benny’s old Maxwell. Every few weeks, there you are parked at the service entrance, for your free nitrogen top-off.

I worked in a very high-tech factory for 31 years. We had some of the world’s best engineers and electronic technicians. Because they hired the best? No, not at all. True, entry req’s were high, but the difference was we had a cooperative culture. If someone learned something new about anything, he was expected to pass it on. After five years in that environment, a normal technician moved into the world class group.

I am not just talking technical details. I am talking also troubleshooting techniques. No where is logic more logical than in troubleshooting.

I was the first tech on a microprocessor based apparatus. There were no training courses. I had to learn from total scratch. Every day, a line of techs would walk down and ask me what I learned today. And, I told them.

I also developed an ad hoc training program on microprocessors. Even when techs took a course at the local community college, they were worthless until they took my short program and really understood what micro-p’s were all about. The college profs taught pin signal paths and wave shapes. To handle micro-p’s you had to think in terms of software instructions.

That background in software approach to unit troubleshooting is why I can at times troubleshoot my own OBDII failures. It would be even easier if we actually had access to the OBDII software for our cars. Just the description of the test, such as it is, often available on-line, helps, though. But, with my experience in similar self-test systems, I can usually “fake it”.

53
So, every time the tire pressure sags a bit, for the next 15 years, you run it back to the dealer and tell them, "Top it off!" Ditto if you need a new tire.

But then I have to drive the car to the dealership instead of just filling the tire from my compressor or from the gas station half a mile away.

I personally would not be looking to spend 300 bucks in order to have to drive all the way across town whenever my tire got low.

54

Triedaq, I teach free English classes in my little Mexican village, using the Laubach books.

My best class is a 20 year old girl who is studying programming in the local technology school. Her 13 year old sister is in the same class. After the Laubach books were adapted, the sisters requested something in computers. There were 4 students in that class, but when we went hard-core computers the other two girls requested more work on reading.

Each week, I have to think of something, frantically study it myself, then type up materials. I taught them arrays in C++ and Java. Also, random numbers (C++ random numbers are useless garbage until the 2011 update) and a program to number crunch common and natural logarithms of any number. It turns out what I am teaching them is not stuff the programming student has studied in school. She understands that when she does eventually study arrays and number crunching she will have an advantage.

The amazing thing is the 13 year old understands it, too. They do work together at home. What an amazing child! I get all goose-bumpy with teaching a smart kid like that. So, I certainly relate to your tale of your last semester.

The last two weeks, I taught them GIMP, the photo editor. I gave them the download and she put it in her Windows 8 machine. She has the computer, and it has the compilers that she needs for homework, but no phone, thus no Internet service in her home.

This week, I am going to show them an Astronomy program, and also give them the download file for Stellarium, which is much improved from the first time I used it.

As I typed this, I had what I think is a great idea!!! I am going to make up a series on OBDII for cars!!! I would have to start with a simple summary of ICE and fuel injection, then on to OBDII stuff. Of course, I will ask them first if they are interested. I cannot even imagine they will not be!

In this village there are only a mere handful who have any idea how OBDII works, and I am one of that handful. So, it will be good for the community if someone starts to learn it. Most car owners are aware of the CHECK ENGINE light, the light of doom when no one has a code reader.

But, the things I am teaching them are more for studying English than what the topic of the moment is. My goal is to give them materials which interest them enough so they can learn new English words and grammar. I think the kid likes what we are studying. She sometimes gets here 5 minutes early! In Mexico. In a culture where 9 a.m. means 11:30, heh, heh.

Gosh, I can even do a session on sensors!!! Not just O-sensors, but all types that a car uses. Do I have my work cut out for me!

I have two code readers. One, an early Actron, reads and resets codes. The other one is an EQUUS 3140, live data and freeze frame. So, we can actually do hands-on stuff. If they like it, I bet I get a number of young men banging on my door. The problem is, it will only be in English so only those who have studied English will be able to study the materials I type up.

55

Asemaster, I think it varies by the instructor. The best training I got in critical thinking was Vocational Agriculture in high school. The instructor was a WWII vet, and died with Japanese steel in his body. He showed us the current wisdom on agriculture, but emphasized this would be changing every; day as we grew older. So, his goal was to teach us to think so we could keep up with the new ag technology.

I firmly believe that the concepts of diagnostics are the same in all fields, from medicine to automotive mechanics.

56

ASE, I strongly suspect you got your critical thinking skills from your mom & dad rather than your college courses. You’re in great company. Many of the world’s smartest people didn’t get their skill from any college. That includes Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson, and countless others.

57

FUN and interesting all around. Looked up about the Curtiss motorcycle. Awkward looking. Wonder how he managed to keep it balanced. Fascinating how so much of early aircraft technology was based on and borrowed from bicycles and from motorcycle engines. The history of technology is fascinating even for a non-mechanical, non-technical person like me. Wish PBS would re-air the program Connections from many years ago. As to the Aerial Atom, dare I joke that it looks like the ultimate Go Cart? Just kidding!!!

58

I strongly suspect you got your critical thinking skills from your mom & dad rather than your college courses.

Oh, I don’t know. As often as not my dad’s answer to me getting a question or task wrong was a stiff slap to the back of the head followed by being called a dummy. But as I grew I found that careful study of a problem rather than trial and error was the way that worked for me in problem solving.

I had always been a tinkerer of sorts, and as I grew older my goal was to be a teacher one day, hence off to college. But I soon found that courses like logic and the other philosophy classes that dealt with the construction and deconstruction of arguments gave me a framework that I could apply to problem-solving when fixing cars. On the other hand, you can discuss Kantian imperatives or Platonic ideals all day long for fun and never make a living at it.

I’ll be working with a younger guy trying to solve a driveability complaint and he’ll say “You probably already know what’s wrong.” I’ll answer “Yes I do. And if you just sit there and look at all your scan data you’ll figure it out too.”

59

Logic with machines is one thing but logic with people is something else again. What may be logical to someone is totally illogical to me. I guess that’s the trick to know what someone else’s logic is.

60

If I had to do it again, I would try to take more liberal arts courses. I didn’t appreciate their value back then.