There is nothing wrong with upselling as long as it’s a legitimate need and I fully agree with db4690s’ comments.
It seems that nowadays dealers are trying to compete with the fast lubes and chain shops and that’s going to create problems in a number of ways.
It does seem like the philosophy is becoming more common at dealers than it used to be.
I think it’s part of the reason that so many people distrust mechanics. They never know what to expect, and they’re unable to determine if the “surprise” is legitimate. They feel trapped and “taken”. They go in for an oil change and get told the need $3000 worth of work.
So far, all the “up-selling” has done for me is expose dealer fraud. Needing power steering fluid flush or brake fluid flush when it was changed by myself last week and many similar instances. I think it sometimes makes the dealership look worse.
I fully understand the reactions of many car owners when presented with a list of needs, but what’s a mechanic supposed to do?
A. Do the inspection, provide a tally, and get accused of running up the score.
B. Pencil whip it while checking nothing, and then get accused of neglect or incompetence.
Be upfront and honest. That’s all you can do.
Unfortunately, as has already been described, the mechanic has to also comply with the shop’s policy. If the policy is to do a “27 point inspection” with every oil change, the mechanic has to do so. If he doesn’t the guy that replaces him will.
I’m comfortable with a mechanic pointing out something he finds while doing authorized work. It’s when he goes searching for things that I get irritated. And when he points out things that I know are BS, I get downright irate. If he stamps “unsafe to drive” on the paperwork for a sway bar bushing with surface cracks, I get downright offensive. It’s a long way from noticing something legitimate and pushing to generate revenue. But there’s too much of the latter going on.
It’s like when I lined up a quickie lube just to get a last-minute state inspection once and they put an orange cone behind my car so I couldn’t get out… then I watched as they did things like check the air filter, the oil level and condition, and the trunk light on the car in front of me as part of the safety inspection. I backed out over their cone (hopefully squashing it) and took off. They were searching for things to do.
I don’t have a problem with LEGITIMATE UPSELLS…But unfortunately … it’s NOT been the norm. Most of the upsells I’ve seen are NOT needed.
Fuel injection cleaning every 30k miles…Engine flushes…Decarbonizing…We have several national chain dealers here in NH. Those places do a lot of this kind of upsell. If they can’t sell you one of the cleaning services…they then start making up PROBLEMS.
So I’m ALWAYS skeptical of upselling. There are couple of good independents I use…and they NEVER upsell. But it took a while to find them.
There should be some skepticism in regards to some inspections; especially if a huge amount of flaws are claimed on a fairly new, low mileage car.
Still, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going looking for upsells while a car is on the rack as long as it’s a legitimate need.
What if someone has their car in for a muffler and the mechanic (while going fishing mechanically) discovers that the front brakes are near the end or a ball joint is shot? Should he say nothing?
Even something such as a fuel injection or induction cleaning is not always a scam. A lot can depend upon the type of fuel, state of tune, driving habits, and so on and the methodogy used to perform that service.
My position is that he should not go fishing. However, if his recommendation is legit and he can show me, I can live with the fishing, and I may even let him do the work.
Far too often, however, the “need” isn’t a need at all. And far too many people have been screwed far too often. That IMHO is the main reason so many people distrust mechanics. Misunderstanding contributes to mistrust too, but I believe most people that have owned cars for more than a decade have been screwed, or have had their sense of security throw awry dishonestly by someone only interested in their money, at least once and have discovered it after.
How about this example. A lady from out of the metro area came into the dealership one morning in her VW and had a friend in tow. She asked for an “Oil change only, check the tires” and emphatically stated “Do NOT try to sell me a bunch of junk”. Fine; no problem. They were going to wait in the lounge and then go shopping.
So once on the rack and with the oil draining I took a quick look around anyway. There was one exhaust hanger rotted off, the right inner CV boot was split and throwing grease, the right ball joint was loose as could be, and the RF strut was leaking oil pretty badly.
Apparently the roads where she lived were taking a toll on the right side.
I told the service writer about this, provided a ballpark estimate. and then went to draw the oil filter and oil from the parts department. Five minutes later the owner of the car said do everything except the struts (which they would do on a return visit) and thanked me for finding those issues.
She was invited out into the shop and I pointed out what was going on with her car.
For what it’s worth, she even asked the service writer to call me up front and personally thanked me for pointing those issues out. She also returned a few weeks later for the struts and asked for me by name.
So what in this scenario is wrong?
Am I guilty of fishing at customer expense? Yes; guilty as charged and guilty of doing so many times over.
OK4450, if your level of integrity were common, I’d have no problem with the fishing.
Sadly, it isn’t. The overwhelming majority of the fishing that goes on out there isn’t honest. The average consumer has no way of telling the difference, and is helpless against the dishonesty. Thus, I oppose the fishing itself. I have no other suggestion that would stop the resultant dishonesty.
Mountainbike, please don’t take my post as combative because it’s certainly not meant that way. Most of the guys I’ve worked with were honest. Working alongside some of them backup opinions are often asked and comments are made along the lines of “wow, look at this tie rod…” or what have you.
That being said, I do agree there are some rotten apples (and some really rotten) in the barrel. Some are natural thieves and others have been made that way by what could be called “the system”.
A strict licensing, decent guaranteed pay, and high standard system could possibly be implemented but the problem with that is that most car owners want “cheap”; even on a highly neglected vehicle. Given the choice of a 30 dollar oil change or a 130 dollar oil change due to highly regulated standards guess which will win out with most owners…
If oil changes were mandated at 130 bucks a pop all hxxx would break loose.
In the case of the OP, it’s being assumed the dealer is gouging because of oil blotches on a strut and that may not be the case at all. If oil blotching was normal then the flip side would be inviting the car owner out into the shop to show them failed struts because they’re bone dry…
@ok4450
You make some very good points
Plumbers and electricians have to be license, I believe
Guys, correct me if I’m wrong
Yet mechanics do not, with the exception of smog technicians
I happen to have tons of certifications, yet none of my employers, past or current, care about this
In fact, many/most of my supervisors have let their own certifications expire
I have to renew these every 5 years, to prove that I still know my stuff
These credentials are voluntary, mind you.
I feel good about them, but my bosses do not
Studying for these credentials has taught me a lot. There have been many instances where I knew how to diagnose and repair something, because I read about it a few years earlier.
In my opinion, it wouldn’t be a bad idea if mechanics had to be licensed. The young kids would follow a set curriculum and be allowed to practice their trade once they passed final written and hands-on exams. “Veterans” like myself would need to be grandfathered in. That means passing some kind of competency exams. Nothing earth-shattering . . . just some exams which prove you’re not a total dummy. Of course, there would have to be some way to prove that you’ve actually been doing the job for a few years. You wouldn’t necessarily want your local dentist . . . who might be book smart, but has only backyard practical experience on cars . . . to be labeled as an official veteran mechanic with years of experience. Fair is fair
OK4450, you need not be concerned. We’re simply looking at the question from different perspectives. Your perspective, viewing the question through the eyes of an honest mechanic, and mine, looking through the prism of one who’s been screwed too often, can be expected to draw different conclusions. It ain’t at all personal, and I never for a moment thought it was. I think we’ve both been hanging out here too long to take any of it personally. And I hope we’re both still here for the foreseeable future.
I don’t know if there’s an answer to the problem of the unscrupulous shops. I’m sure that licensing and regulations help, but not much. The things I see make me think that safety inspections certainly aren’t the answer, and even techs who would prefer to do only what’s asked have to follow their shops policy. All the customer base can ask for is honesty. And it’s the varying degree of honesty that creates our different perspectives.
I remember in the early '80s my wife took the family minivan to a shop for an inspection and was told the driveshaft was bent and needed to be replaced… for $1,000. The shop was (and still is) owned by the husband of her coworker, so I went along with it but told them to put the old shaft in the van’s wayback. When I looked at it I discovered “bent” meant a small dent in the stamped metal cap that protects the U-joint (it was RWD). The shop never saw the van again, and because my wife was concerned about damaging her relationship with her coworker, I just went along with it without contesting. But we got screwed. In today’s world things are even worse.
I also recognize and agree with your comment that most techs are honest (I believe that most PEOPLE are honest if given an opportunity to be), but the “bad apples” are peppered around the population (ANY population) too liberally to leave me trusting of techs looking for work to do.
Our perceptions are what makes it through the filters of our experiences, and everyone’s filters end up different.