Right now, 1 out of every 3 attempts at starting this car results in the starter motor not turning over. When it does turn over, the engine fires up just fine. Tried putting the transmission range switch in Neutral and it makes no difference. In neutral or park, when the starter does not run and with the volt meter on the starter solenoid terminal there is no 12 volts . Looking at the electrical diagram of the starting system, it appears that I have a bad ignition switch or bad starter cut relay. I think I will opt for the starter cut relay first because the ignition switch seems like a daunting task. But I don’t know where this relay is located. Did some research on the web and it seems it should be near the fuse block which is located under the dash on the left hand side of the drivers position. I see the fuse block and above it is a 1 x 2 inch gray block that looks like it could be the relay in question. I can just reach it but can’t seem to pull it out. If someone can confirm that this is indeed the relay, and tell me how to get it out, I can bench test it.
BTW, I don’t think I would want to be an auto tech today… everything is just too crammed in!!!
I hope someone can help me, I would appreciate it very much! Thanks!
Ok, I removed the driver’s side bottom cover, upper and lower side kick cover and found the relay panel where the starter cut relay is located. There are 3 more identical relays on the panel (marked ACC, LAF, P/W, ST ). I swapped the ACC and ST relays and it did not fix the problem. So now it has to be the ignition switch. I had an extended warranty ( 6 yrs ) and it just expired last month… but I think I will have to take it to the dealer and bite the bullet!
Try unplugging and plugging back in the electrical connector for the transmission range switch.
The transmission range switch provides the ground for the starter cut relay when the ignition switch is turned to start when in park/neutral.
If you want to check if it’s the transmission range switch, unplug the connector to the switch and insert a jumper wire between the pin for the gray wire on the connector and pin for the red with a white stripe wire on the connector. If the engine cranks and starts the problem is with the transmission range switch.
Good idea by Tester above. Another thing that your mechanic could do is see if the relay is getting the activation signal when the key is in “start”. Then, depending on yes or no, trace backward or forward from there. To me this sounds like a problem with the transmission safety switch though. It may just need to be re-adjusted. Sometimes – I had this problem once on my Ford truck with an automatic – if you move the gear selector just a tad off center from the Neutral (or Park) detent the safety switch will come into adjustment and the vehicle will crank and start consistently.
Tester, thanks for the tip! Yes, I should definitely not limit troubleshooting to only units but to connectors as well. Since I did not want to troubleshoot the iginition switch, I thought I would take the starter/solenoid out and bench test it as a last resort. While in the process of removing the starter motor, I happened to eyeball the positive terminal clamp and saw that the bottom part was deteriorating due to corrosion. I stopped in my tracks when I saw this and put the starter back and worked on cleaning the clamps. After all that, it failed to start just once, so I am not positive this is the fix. Will use the car and see what happens. If it fails, I will try disconneting that transmission range switch connector and spraying with electronic cleaner and re-connect. For the record, you state a grey wire, while my diagram shows it to be green. In any case, I hope I don’t have to get to that point! Anyway, thanks for your expertise!! Much appreciated!
Confused why you removed the starter motor. I thought you mentioned there is no 12 volts on the Starter Motor “Start” terminal when the key is in the “start” position. Without 12 volts there, even a brand new starter motor isn’t going to crank.
George, I don’t see a safety switch in the schematic. However, I did jiggle the gear selector when it did not start and it did not make any difference. I’m done troublshooting for today. I have to put those darn covers back on and then sit back and have a cold one!!
George, this is like 2-way radio…when we a both talking, we can’t hear each other. Yes, I know when I went back to the starter/solenoid it was contrary to my troubleshooting sequence but when I saw the corrosion on the clamps, I know from experience that just because you can read voltage at the solenoid when it is about to crank, if there is a some resistance on low voltage/high current circuit, the poor connection will open up and no current will flow. I don’t know if this makes sense, I could be wrong.
Ok, well I was wrong about that 1x2 inch gray block above the fuse block - that turned out to be the hazard flasher relay. But after removing the driver side bottom cover, upper and lower left kick covers (no easy task, I might add ) I found the relay panel just above the fuse panel which was previously covered up by the bottom kick panel!! There are about 6 relays there, 4 of which (marked ST, LAF, ACC, P/W ) are identical and one of which is the starter cut relay. So I swapped the ACC ( AC clutch, I believe) and the ST relay and viola, no dice!!! So now on to the ignition switch. Don’t hesitate to jump in and give advice on taking apart the steering column!
There’s no need to take apart the steering column per se. Remove the upper and lower plastic covers (between the steering wheel and instrument panel). You reach the phillips screws from the bottom. The starter switch is located at the back of the ignition switch assembly which is to your left as you face the steering wheel. Note that the starter switch and the ignition key cylinder are separate items and the starter switch can be replaced separately. The starter switch is what you should be replacing, not the key lock cylinder. Using the new starter switch as a guide, find and undo fasteners and electrical connectors. Reverse to install the new switch. That’s all there is to it. You might be surprised at how simple it was and wonder what all the worry was about.
As always it is advisable to disconnect the battery before working on any electrical assemblies especially because of the air bag in the steering wheel. If you look at pictures of ignition lock cylinders assemblies, they will usually come with the starter switch already attached but you don’t need to buy the whole thing. If you look at RockAuto’s site for reference, the starter switch is listed under Electrical Switch & Relay and the whole ignition lock cylinder + switch is located under Ignition.
Ok, thanks for the insight on the ignition switch, AlanY. When I looked up ignition switch in my Haynes manual, and it said “center punch…drill holes in shear bolts” I stopped going any further.
Since cleaning the battery clamps, it has failed to start just once in about 10 start ups but I have my doubts. The problem may re-appear as suddenly as it appeard the first time. When it did not start, I’m sure that there was no 12v at the starter solenoid with the ignition switch in the start position. For awhile I thought that a poor connection at the battery could have caused the symptoms I saw but after thinking about it, that makes no logical sense.
I will take a wait-and-see position for now and if it does come back, I will take the covers off the steering column and spray the ignition switch with electrical contact cleaner and if that does not work will tackle the transmission range switch connector.
Replace the battery clamps and cables if they are corroded. The high resistance connection to your starter is only one problem. You also will have a high resistance connection to your alternator and can fry it and or leave your battery less than optimally charged.
Never trust a wiring diagram out of a Haynes manual. They’re wrong.
Before I subscribed to the professional online service manuals, I use to refer to those types of manuals. And when you compare what’s in those manuals wiring diagrams to the actual manufacterers wiring diagrams, you find the wiring colors are wrong and there are missing components in the wiring diagrams.
So now on to the ignition switch. Don’t hesitate to jump in and give advice on taking apart the steering column!