Hi all…I apologize in advance for the lenght of this…I am looking for some advice on an issue that I am having with a crankshaft bolt on a 2005 Kia Sorento. After doing some quick research, it appears that the crankshaft bolts are a serious problem. The Sorento in question ('05) did not qualify for the recall a few years back. Apparently, the recall went through early 2005, by my VIN# came back as not qualifying. Anyway, the issue that I am facing is that the crankshaft bolt is seized up. I should note that the timing belt was replaced back in January of this year, and the crankshaft bolt was not replaced. The vehicle ran great up until about two weeks ago when I noticed that it was idling very rough (but only at idle). I took it in to the mechanic that changed the timing belt, and he said that the noise is related to the timing belt and that it would go away. So another week goes by and the noise really gets bad. I barely get the vehicle to the same mechanic (after driving with power steering going in and out; battery light coming on) to find out that the harmonic balancer has gone bad, thus causing all the problems i have been witnessing. The mechanic then calls me up telling me (warning me) that the crankshaft bolt is siezed up and that something bad (ie. stripping) might happen when he tries to remove it. He proceeds to tell me that he would rather not do the job because of this. So I then call Kia and explain the problem, and they too tell me that they do not want to do it because that the timing belt was changed six months ago. What do you all think caused this bolt to become siezed? Is it due to the balancer becoming bad? or did the bolt cause the balancer to become wallowed out over time (if it was not put back in correctly during the timing belt change? Sorry so long, just looking for some advice on how to proceed.
Thanks
I guess I should add that the mechanic said that the bolt would turn a 1/4 turn in either direction?? but would then stop. It sure seems to me that he knows that the threads are damaged which is why he does not want to try to remove it. Is it reasonable that i ask the mechanic what their liability would be if the threads are bad due to this? All they keep saying is because it has been 6 months since the timing belt change that this is not related. I just dont see the balancer going bad for no reason.
Here’s what happened:
When you mechanic replaced the timing belt 6 months ago, he cross threaded the bolt.
And he knew he did it, too, but didn’t tell you about it.
Now here it is, 6 months later, and he’s about to get caught up in what happened 6 months ago.
When the bolt comes out, he’s going to need to repair the threads in the crankshaft so that a new bolt can be used. This takes a good mechanic, and not a hack like he sounds like he is.
If this job gets screwed up, you will have to replace the entire crankshaft, which is why no one wants to tackle the job.
BC.
Will I be able to tell if the bolt was cross threaded 6 months ago when/if it is removed? If so, thats a pretty good sign that the mechanic is liable, correct.
I normally refrain from responding to these situations because it is very difficult to make judgements without seeing the parts in person or hearing both sides of the story. That being said;
I took it in to the mechanic that changed the timing belt, and he said that the noise is related to the timing belt and that it would go away.
RED FLAG! No mechanic worth their salt would ever say a noise coming from a freshly R&R’d timing belt is OK and will go away. This would make me leery of any future comments or conclusions he makes as well.
The mechanic then calls me up telling me (warning me) that the crankshaft bolt is siezed up and that something bad (ie. stripping) might happen when he tries to remove it. He proceeds to tell me that he would rather not do the job because of this.
If no other service has been done and he is aware of that, he knows he is the last one to have touched the bolt. Likely, he knew there was a problem at the time and we’ll address later.
What do you all think caused this bolt to become siezed?
It’s possible it was the result of ham-fisted installation and cross threading. It’s also possible that the threads were corroded and galled upon removal during the timing belt job. However, I would argue that a conscientious mechanic wouldn’t just wheel it back in and not say or do anything to correct the situation when it went in with difficulty or didn’t fully seat.
Is it due to the balancer becoming bad? or did the bolt cause the balancer to become wallowed out over time (if it was not put back in correctly during the timing belt change?
I believe the latter, but I’d have to see the hole in the balancer to be sure, because of this statement:
I guess I should add that the mechanic said that the bolt would turn a 1/4 turn in either direction??
A fully seated bolt would not tighten 1/4 turn unless it was first loosened 1/4 turn. I’d bet it did not go in all the way on installation. The threads were messed up for some reason and would not go all the way in. He may or may not have noticed this but I suspect it was known. Once he realized it was causing a problem and wouldn’t come back out, he wheeled it in as far as possible and hoped it would be good enough. The problem has come back to haunt him.
Good luck.
Thanks so much for the response! I really cannot imagine that this is not related to the timing belt change. The only other service done in the meantime was that the ICV valve (which was a KIA recall) was replaced. Not sure where this is located, or if they had to remove the crankshaft bolt in order to replace it???
On the surface this sounds suspect but I’m not going to blame the mechanic just yet. I’m not familiar with how the Sorento is set up but with many vehicles the crankshaft bolt does not have to be removed to change the timing belt. Only the pulleys (separate bolts) and cover is removed with the crankshaft bolt remaining untouched.
In regards to Recalls, there are a lot of politics involved in these. It’s often true that many vehicles of the same make/model that are not under a Recall will suffer the same problem as one that is. Honda ignition switches are a good example.
Car makers try to keep that VIN range as narrow as possible.
I would try to determine if the crankshaft bolt really needs to removed for this timing belt job before blaming it on the mechanic. If the bolt really requires removal to change the timing belt then it’s quite possible the mechanic has some culpability in this; either with being hamfisted or failing to inspect the bolt while it was out.
If the bolt does not need to be removed to perform the T-belt job then I’d say it’s a continuation of the Recall problem.
Yeah, the crankshaft bolt has to be removed in order to get to the timing belt on the Sorento. Also, regarding the recall…supposedly the ‘bad’ crankshaft bolt is a different color (material) than the supposed better new bolt. I have asked the mechanic what the color of the bolt is with no response yet…I am really starting to become suspicous of this mechanic. It happens to be really close to my office and I noticed that my vehicle has been moved around at least twice in the parking lot (which would indicate that they have looked at it today; especially since it is not drivable (they would have had to push it around) with no call as to what they have found.
The mistake the mechanic made was he reused the crankshaft bolt. On this engine a new crankshaft bolt is installed when replacing the timing belt. The reason is the crankshaft bolt is a prevailing torque type fastener and cannot be reused.
Tester
Just did a quick search and found this interesting post: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r24023667-Tech-2003-Kia-Sorento-saga-continues
Worth reading…
In talking to the mechanic, he says that had he known the bolt should not be reused (if a TSB was posted) he would not have re-used it. Could this be a reasonable reason to talk to KIA about this? That if they know the bolts are weak, why do they not put out a TSB on them? I just talked with him and he said he can’t get the bolt out. He tried with an impact gun but it won’t budge. Says his shop does not have the capability to get it out if it shears off. He thinks the problem is that the bolt somehow loosened on its own, and that it had nothing to do with the way he put it back on when he changed the timing belt.
For some reason KIA didn’t come out with a TSB about not reusing the crankshaft bolt. But those who replace the timing belts on these engine always install a new bolt because it’s a prevailing type torque bolt.
A prevailing type torque fastener is one that when initially tightened will not loosen up. But once the fastener is removed it cannot be reused because no matter how much torque is applied it will not stay tight but loosens back up. And this is what is happening and why the bolt won’t stay tight.
The only way I can think of removing the bolt is to take a torch and heat the bolt head cherry red so the heat moves down the bolt and into the threads. The heat will then transfer into the crankshaft causing the threads to expand. Then cool the bolt down as quickly as possible so the bolt threads shrink but the crankshaft threads remain expanded from the heat, and then try removing the bolt as quickly as possible with an impact gun. This might provide enough clearance at the threads to remove the bolt.
Tester
Thanks so much for your replies Tester! It seems to me that while this problem arose from the mechanic reusing the same bolt, I can’t really blame him for the state that my vehicle is in?? If Kia never put out anything regarding this, how is he to know? It does seem thought that this is a legitimate issue to take up with Kia.
Thanks so much for the idea of removing the bolt. I do think that I am going to take the vehicle somewhere else to attempt getting the bolt out (maybe Kia), seeing that the original mechanic seems to have thrown in the towel.
At this point I wouldn’t lay the blame on the mechanic with 100% certainty and let me play Devil’s advocate here for a minute.
It’s stated that the pulley will rock back and forth a 1/4". This usually points to a wallowed out keyway (bad news) and it’s possible this problem could have been developing for the last 3 years. It’s anybody’s guess and at some point things will go downhill quickly.
In other words, a seized crank bolt has nothing to do with the keyway. Considering the bolt history it’s possible this problem has been brewing for a long time. The point could be made that if this problem existed to some degree at the time of the belt change it’s the mechanic’s job to inspect this.
ALLDATA doesn’t show a Recall or TSB for this problem on an '05 Sorento so how is the mechanic supposed to even be aware of it?
What I’ve read is that the bolt and threads are the same; the only thing that changed was the coating on the bolt. This could possibly explain the seizure but not a wallowed keyway problem.
At this point the jury is still out in my opinion.
Not sure where you are getting the pulley rocking back and forth 1/4"…is this something that is known, or misinterpreted from my post. I did state that the mechanic said the crankshaft bolt would turn a 1/4 turn in either direction (which indicates that is was loose; how it got loose is anyones guess). But yeah, the reason this bolt siezure was recognized is because I brought the vehicle in due to the noise caused by the harmonic balancer being ‘worn out’ (i guess, its definately loose on the bolt; the bolt head is not in the center of the balancer). I agree that I can’t blame the mechanic 100% for this problem, especially since there is no TSB regarding the bolt (although i still feel if the timing belt was never changed, this probably wouldn’t have happened). It seems that some blame does need directed towards KIA for having such a weak bolt and not posting a bulletin about it.
Ok4450.
I went to Mitchell on Demand 5. And nowhere are there instructions to replace the crankshaft bolt while doing a timing belt replacement on this vehicle. However, on this on-line repair site it allows techs to add comments or hints in a repair catagory that might help other tech’s in a certain repairs or warnings about certain repairs. And when I looked up the timing belt replacement on this vehicle, one tech gave a warning. “DO NOT REUSE THE CRANKSHAFT BOLT! INSTALL A NEW CRANKSHAFT BOLT!”
Tester
Again, this bolt is a known issue. Do I have a legitimate reason to go to Kia and suggest liability?
And the bolt dilemma continues…I also posted this in the ALLDATA question thread, but anyway.so a buddy of mine (who might as be a mechanic) was able to get the crankshaft bolt out with a 3/4" drive. This really makes me wonder if the mechanic really tried as he had stated (said he even put an impact wrench on it with no success). So after I go to Kia and get a new bolt only to find that it is a little longer than the one we got out??? After closer inspection, we noticed that the end of the bolt (maybe the last 2-3 threads) are sheared off and still in the crank. Whats really interesting is that the end of the bolt we got out is corroded looking (not freshly sheared), which indicates to me that the either the mechanic sheared the bolt in January (when removing or replacing), or at the very least should have noticed that it was not right. Also, the last 5-6 threads on the bolt are all mangled…
The bolt being cross-threaded is just a GUESS, and OPINION. I would disregard that until it has been PROVEN…
If the first mechanic used Loctite on it, it will be VERY difficult to remove, but it WILL come out. A GOOD mechanic, after you absolve him from all responsibility can HEAT the bolt with a torch breaking the Loctite bond and releasing the bolt to the impact wrench.
But be warned, things CAN get sideways and the engine rendered non-repairable.
This is just another good reason to avoid timing BELTS…
Harmonic balancer failure is a complete separate issue.