I agree that the 3.7L wasn’t the best engine ever made but it wasn’t the worst made by Chrysler by any stretch. I would think it would be good for at least another 50k if it has been cared for so far.
I agree that the 3.7L wasn't the best engine ever made but it wasn't the worst made by Chrysler by any stretch. I would think it would be good for at least another 50k if it has been cared for so far.
Yeah, I suppose that’s part of why I’m feeling torn. I bought the car 6 years ago with 83K on it. I’ve invested decent money in preventative care. I’ve done transmission fluid, diffs, plugs, and braking fluid every 30K. I’ve kept the brakes in good shape. So there’s a part of me that thinks “If I can get through this repair, I should be OK.” It uses 2 quarts of oil every 5,000 miles, which isn’t bad for a 13 year old motor.
But there are no guarantees with older cars.
So far this year, I’ve had to do the water pump, the radiator, brakes, and now I’m dealing with these issues. Throw in the new tires and preventive maintenance that I’ve done this year, and I’ve put almost $1900 bucks into it since January. That’s a lot of money when you consider that the alternator, fuel pump, and power steering pumps are original - they could die 2 years from now, or they could die tomorrow. The transmission has clean fluid and filters in it, but it’s 13 years old. Who knows.
If I lived close to work, had an easy carpooling option, or had a second car around, I might consider keeping the jeep. But neither of those things are options, so I really need a car that I can count on.
So, as I sit here today, my gut instinct is to see what the independent mechanic says. I’ll work with him to prioritize the repairs and deal with the most serious ones. Then I’ll get estimates from him for the other jobs, deduct those amounts from the sale price, and see if there’s an experienced wrench out there who wants a fun, older jeep with a good service history. Someone with the tools, time, and know-how could have a lot of fun with it. Meanwhile I’ll start shopping.
According to the dealer estimates it needs $3,000 or so in repairs . How much you want for it ?
@db4690 all due respect, it did not appear that the mechanic removed the wheels so unless he had xray vision.
On a solid axle, when the axle seal goes, the gear oil washes the grease out of the wheel bearing and that is what coats the tire and wheel.
If it had just started leaking, then it could be confined to the brake shoes and drum, but the mechanic would have to remove the wheel and drum to see.
It is unusual for someone to ignore an axle seal leak to the point that the tire is coated in gear oil.
I only saw a 15 second video, what happened before the video? How can you be sure he didn’t perform a brake inspection? A brake inspection is normally part of the multi point inspection.
“It is unusual for someone to ignore an axle seal leak to the point that the tire is coated in gear oil.”
I disagree. It happened to me last year. A couple of months after replacing all my brake hoses, calipers and wheel cylinders and brake pads and rotors, I found that one rear wheel cylinder was leaking. When I removed the wheel, what a mess.
I do this for a living
What you described is an EXTREME example
Most mechanics will recommend the axle seal LONG before it gets to that point
How do you know the mechanic hadn’t removed the wheel and drum . . . actually, I believe OP’s vehicle might have rear rotors, with the parking brake mechanism built into the rotor’s hat . . . ?!
It was just an oil change, and a low cost one at that.
you seem to know everything so much better than me
here you go
Any leak should be pointed out to the customer. Small today; gusher tomorrow.
I guess some are familiar with the old saying about the king’s horse losing a nail out of a horseshoe…
Any leak should be pointed out to the customer. Small today; gusher tomorrow.
I agree. I’m glad the tech pointed them out. I just have to decide whether or not I want to spend the dough at this point.
Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t, but I will stand by my original advice to get a second opinion. Y’all OK with that?
For those who are interested, here was what my independent mechanic said:
(1) He said the front drive shaft boot is fine.
(2) He said the right rear axle seal was leaking, but that it was extremely slow. He recommended keeping an eye on it and doing it at the next oil change.
(3) He said that while there were some dry rot cracks in my rear upper control arm bushings, he did not feel they needed replacement yet. He said “just remind me to check them out whenever you come in for oil, and when it’s time to do them, we’ll do them.”
(4) He did replace my high pressure power steering hose, as it was leaking. He also drained the power steering fluid and replaced with fresh. Grand total? $300 bucks. The dealer wanted over $800 to do the same job. Unbelieveable!
Not unbelievable. The dealer has a lot of overhead that the private shop does not. You are supposed to get well trained techs intimately familiar with the brand(s) they sell, and all the equipment needed to take care of them. That increases the cost to the customers.
Edit: it’s great to hear you saved so much for the work. That will make the other work more affordable when the time comes to get them done.
I’m of the opinion that a customer should always get a second opinion or estimate; or even a 3rd one on big ticket repairs. There is nothing wrong with going with the lesser estimate at an independent shop.
Mr. Sanders is also correct that the dealer has overhead which the independent shop does not; a LOT of additional overhead. That additional list can easily run a page long and can include specialty factory service tools, major items like an alignment rack, service training schools, and on and on.
Consider what is called an update school which is nothing more than a 1 day session where the mechanic has to sit through PR on the latest features of the new models. The dealer has to pay the fee for this mandatory school, airline ticket, hotel, meals, incidentals so that PR school alone can easily set the dealer back a grand or more. Plus the dealer is paying the mechanic some wages for attending the school even though the mechanic is not turning out work in the shop. The independent does not have that expense.
As for parts, quite often the dealer cost on a part is higher than the retail price of a similar part at the local parts house such as NAPA, AutoZone, etc. Actual example below.
Retail price of part at NAPA - 68 dollars.
Dealer cost of identical part - 65 dollars.
So you can see the dealer cannot compete with NAPA if they only have a 3 dollar markup.
The dealer also has thousands of other parts collecting dust on the shelf and losing money while the independent is not faced with this as they use parts on demand so to speak.
Sounds like you got a good independent at a good price so stick with them.
The video you provided is very short , has bad lighting & jumps very quickly from spot to spot . That being said , I would still like to have a better look at the driveshaft boot & the rear control arm bushings . Apparently the first tech was correct about the seal leak & power steering leak .
02 & 03 Liberty’s used power steering fluid in the power steering & 04 & up use atf+4 & those fluids aren’t supposed to be mixed . With a complete power steering flush 02’s & 03’s can be switched to atf+4 .
I have an 02 & an 05 & the boots on the transfer case end of the front driveshaft was shot on both & is a very common problem . Those bushings in the rear control arm are also a very common problem .
In addition to Jt’s comments about dealer costs, they’re also obligated to use only manufacturer approved parts through the manufacturer’s distribution system. They generally cost 50% to 100% more than aftermarket parts… sometimes even more. For critical, vehicle-specific parts, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, because they are very often higher quality. I’ve even had aftermarket parts not even fit properly.
I’m not a dealer-shop fan… or customer… but I have to acknowledge that while generally much more expensive there are advantages. Except for older vehicles. In my experience dealers often don’t even want to bother with old vehicles. Perhaps they know the customers will go nuts when they get a quote higher than the value of the vehicle… and likely go elsewhere. Perhaps they don’t like seeing the customers’ jaws drop when the get the car on the lift and tell them how much work the car actually needs. Maybe they’re just spoiled by doing warranty work… no rusty bolts involved. Perhaps the guys here who have lots of experience in dealer shops can tell me why they seem to not want to work on older cars. Or perhaps I’m just biased by bad experiences. 
I certainly can’t help with dealer experience . The last time I went to a dealer was for a recall on my elderly mothers car . She received a notice of the recall & was told what dealer to contact to get the recall done .
The recall had to do with defective vacuum hoses which included the pcv hoses . She contacted the dealer & an appointment was made . I drove her there & we had a seat in the waiting area . Shortly we were informed that her car had an automatic transmission & all the recall kits they had was for vehicles with manual transmissions & those had one more hose connected to the pcv hose than the automatics had & they would notify her when they got those .
A month or so later they notified her they had the kit & made another appointment . I drove her there again & they supposedly completed the recall . Not long after I was checking her fluids & such & noticed a disconnected hose . Her car had one of those { aluminum ? } hoses that was a couple inches in diameter & connected the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner & it wasn’t connected at the air cleaner .
I started to connect it & found the air cleaner was loose & wobbled around & also spotted a plastic fitting sticking out the side of the air cleaner that didn’t have a hose on it . I couldn’t see a hose to put on it so I removed the air cleaner & found that hose folded back under a bunch of other stuff & also found the new pcv hose with a tee in it with a short piece of vacuum hose on the tee & an old spark plug stuffed into it .
By this time I was livid & a fly wouldn’t have lit on the service manager at that dealership after I phoned him . We had to take the car back for the third time to get the correct pcv hose installed . While there that time the service manager whimpered that he couldn’t believe one of his " techs " did that .
Of course what happened was , they decided to install the manual kits on automatic transmission vehicles & just plug the extra hose which wouldn’t have been so bad if they had put everything back together .
what a bunch of losers
Too many stories like this have damaged people’s confidence in all shops.
Going to a dealer, and perhaps to any shop, is an adventure in anxiety for a whole lot of people, myself included. What ever happened to honesty and conscientiousness?