b@BillRussellso how do you check up on the service dept. when you doubt the tire rotation’s been done? Mark the tires in some way? To me, trust is paramount and without it I take my business elsewhere.
Yes, the noise is still right front after tires are rotated. they didn’t indicate which tire was ‘chopped’ or if all of them were! nor do I know why this happens. Defective tire? need to rotate more frequently? I’ve been following the manual service recommendations and I drive like an old lady. The warranty is up in Sept. this year so I have a little time, and all of this extensive work hasn’t cost me anything. I am going to follow CSA’s suggestion of comparing the front center wheel temps with an infrared thermometer. it can’t hurt , and I’ll learn something new! If the temperatures are pretty close, it’s probably the chopped tire(s). I’m sure the warranty doesn’t cover tires, but I sure don’t want to pay list price for new tires. when the manager checked the tread depth he said I could get through the summer but he wouldn’t want to go the next winter with them. so, is he really trying to sell me tires? the vehicle has only 23,500 miles . do they put sub par tires on new vehicles? the trust thing…
SuzanneJ
FYI, @CapriRacer, who responded earlier is a tire expert (professionally) and visits this site frequently.
CSA
Yeah, there isn’t much left but the tires. Suggest the dealer removes the front wheels, flips both tires on their rims, rebalances, and swaps sides. This leaves tires rotating the same direction, but gets the “chopped” (cupped maybe?) edge(s) to the outside.
Question: Can you get the noise to change by gently “weaving” down the road?
A DIY method would be to put on the temporary spare. Make sure it’s properly inflated before driving far.
Becoming familiar with tire changing process / tools / safety measures may not be as important as in the days before ubiquitous cell phones, but is still worthwhile. Practicing at home in a non-emergency situation is a good introduction.
If the brakes check out, I would suggest that the dealer look at the RF axle. This is not a normal axle noise but I recall hearing that the inner CV joint can cause that noise. In some cars that have a center bearing on the RF axle, that can also make the noise, but I don’t think that Subaru has a two piece axle because the transmission in a fore/aft orientation.
I bought the infrared thermometer and will test tomorrow – drive to work is 10 min on highway, if that’s not enough will plan longer trip.
InsightfulI like your idea of removing front tires from rim, flipping, replacing on rim and switching to reverse the cupped side.
Shanonia your last sentence is absolutely true; I have changed a tire; this aggravation has not put me in a mind to change the tire. :neutral:
Capriracerthanks for your input. it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I’m really glad to have so many folks saying their piece.
SuzanneJ
Yup, mark the tires in some way. Pick up a stone or a pen and write a small “LF, RF, LR, RR” inconspicuously on each tire sidewall. Then check them after the shops says they’re done… BEFORE you pay the bill.
Tire wear is highly dependent on driving style, driving environment, location on the car, and the car’s condition (alignment, struts, etc.). And yes, they often do put sub-par tires on lesser-priced cars… some would argue that they ALWAYS do. My own car had really crappy ties (Bridgestone RE92s) when I bought it. Real garbage. You can look your tires up on www.tirerack.com to find out. They have a good review section.
so how do you check up on the service dept. when you doubt the tire rotation’s been done?
Were the tires rotated twice? The second time to move the noisy tires to the rear?
Generally wear patterns develop in the rear, when tires with wear patterns are moved to the front complaints follow. Were the tires rotated after the noise was noticed or before?
“do they put sub par tires on new vehicles?”
Car manufacturers select tires primarily on the basis of low cost and low rolling resistance, with the latter being important for good gas mileage.
They may also want their specified tires to produce a good ride quality and/or good handling characteristics. The one factor in which car manufacturers have no interest when selecting tires is long tread wear. Thus, it is not at all unusual for a new car’s tires to need replacement after only 25k to 30k miles. I can recall the tires on my father’s Ford being almost bald–but evenly worn–after only 16k miles.
You can compare treadwear quality when choosing your next set of tires by looking at the treadwear rating molded into the sidewall of the tire, along with the traction rating and the heat resistance rating. The higher the 3 digit tread wear rating, the longer the tread is likely to last, with the best ratings typically being on the more expensive Michelin tires.
IIRC, my Michelin Defenders have a treadwear rating over 800, while the original equipment Continental tires had ratings in the 400 range. I have seen new car tires with treadwear numbers as low as 250!
I really think you need to find a nearby and reliable shop that can take a look at it. They may notice something that the dealer techs didn’t notice. The caveat to that strategy is that it will cost you a few bucks, but it may verify the problem. Find somebody that specializes in the suspension.
Personally, I don’t know why they aren’t looking for simple problems first. Warped Rotors? Is there cupping on the tires? (This could indicate a premature failure of a strut).
Bad bearings make a clicking noise, and it is usually indicated at lower speeds and increases with acceleration until it is inaudible, but can show around 50MPH depending on the conditions.
I’ve replaced a hub assembly or two in my days, and it solved that problem, but you’re hearing road noise from tires. If it isn’t the tire itself, it is in the suspension and transmitting through the tires to the ground.
Replaced transmission? Really?
I’m really curious as to this noise…
They’ll claim under warranty all day long; they don’t really care about corporate costs in that regard.
It sounds like it is tire noise. If it was a bearing it would make noise at speeds under 35 mph. Here is a creative solution: Drive another 5000 miles. If the noise gets louder, it’s a bearing. If not, it’s a tire.
I recall having difficulty with determining if a failed bearing was on the front or the rear. How can you be sure that the noise is from a front wheel? Could you have two tires with scalloped treads?
the same mountainbike: I accidently marked 2 of my wheels with distinctive curb rash. I am also able to watch if I choose to when the work is being done. My 2002 Mitsubishi eclipse came with Bridgestones. They were terrible tires. I was actually happy when they were worn out at 20,000 miles.
“If it was a bearing it would make noise at speeds under 35 mph”
Not necessarily…
After a friend of mine whacked the curb with his Rav-4, he had to replace a lower control arm and do an alignment, but I was suspicious that more damage may have taken place. When I finally got to drive his vehicle a few weeks later, it made no unusual noises at city/suburban speeds.
So, …all good?
Nope!
Once I got the vehicle up to expressway speeds it had the characteristic noise of a bad wheel bearing, and further examination by his mechanic confirmed that the wheel bearing was bad.
WhaWho, one of my list of next questions for the dealer is if all the tires are cupped and if not, which ones? (the first fix was a rear toe adjustment and alignment which didn’t affect the noise). all I know is when sitting in the driver’s seat, the noise seems from right front.
they’ve given me a loaner each time; a 2015 Impreza same model as mine and the tires just had normal rolling on the road noise – not what I’m experiencing with my 2013.
2nd loaner was 2016 Forester, no tire noise like mine.
Each time they fixed something (wheel bearing, transmission!, they said they test drove and heard no noise. I think I need to ride with the technician who will work on it next to identify what I’m talking about. It appears they really don’t know what to listen for. If the road’s really bumpy (as it is in their location) you won’t hear it and if they just drove around the block they wouldn’t hear it.
I honestly don’t want to listen to this noise for 5,000 more miles to see if it gets worse (takes me almost 6 months to do that!) ; more and more I am liking shanonia’s</b idea of putting the spare on right front; if the noise remains with the spare on, it’s a brake issue? but one of the other or all tires could be cupped.
Jova007200 I do have a reliable local shop but thought because it’s under warranty all work should be done at a Subaru dealer?
so, I took the 10 min highway route to work and tried the infrared thermometer immediately after parking. I am really not sure where to point the laser beam. on the rotor? caliper? any suggestions? the hub center is covered by the lug nuts. or do I press and hold the trigger and move it to and fro to find the hottest spot? obviously, I’ll need to do this again.
Signed, Frustrated
I’m not recommending you have work done. Just thinking of having them check it if you so desire.
It seems to be really annoying you.
I usually expect a roaring sound from a bad wheel bearing but the last one I had go bad did not make any noise until I got up to about 50 mph and then it sounded like a propeller on a Cessna. A wha wha noise to me sounds like an inner CV joint, which woould have been a lot less expensive than a transmission.
It could also be a bent backing plate on the front brake, but anyone should have easily caught that.
@SuzanneJ
"I think I need to ride with the technician who will work on it next to identify what I’m talking about. It appears they really don’t know what to listen for."
Professional technicians will back me up on this, and no offense to mechanics, loud noise in this noisy work environment takes its toll over the years in the form of hearing loss. It comes with the job. Sometimes when they say, “I don’t hear anything,” they honestly can’t hear anything. A younger technician probably has more hearing ranges intact than a more senior one.
CSA
“A younger technician probably has more hearing ranges intact than a more senior one.”
…unless he is a heavy-metal aficionado, in which case all bets are off…
Yeah, I have heard that I should invest in companies that make hearing aids. As the heavy metal generation matures, they will be in high demand.
I Took A Navy Physical Exam (Officer Candidate), Once.
I was quite a bit much older than most of guys there. Many were in total shock and disbelief, devastated actually, when they failed the hearing test. I passed, no problem.
I attributed it to loud music. I believe headphones at higher volumes can do a lot of damage, also.
CSA