Woman Jailed For Fatal Crash Wants Very Early Release

General Discussion
21

This is a honest to God true story that just made its way through the legal system. The killing was of a black man in Oakland (I wonder how many times those words have been written). Extensive rioting in Oakland caused the trial to be moved to L.A.,result was a guilty verdict on one of the reduced “taking of a life” charges and penalty was two years,realitives cried “foul”.

Cops defense was that he thought he had pulled his Tazer, killing was recorded on a couple of different cell phones. Suspect was handcuffed on his stomach,cop had his knee in the back of victim when he shot him.

Victims name is Oscar Grant and it was a BART officer that shot him.

22

I like all those ideas.

I’d add to that that I would like the initial licensing process to be significantly longer, require more training, and be significantly more expensive (a set % of household income might be a good start, so as to not be too regressive). Some other nations do this already, and while they aren’t devoid of all idiots on the road, people view driving as a privilege, not a right. You might even see significantly more useful (and far more efficient) mass transit in cities, too.

I’m really tired of seeing horrendous driving skills and hearing about people with 3,5, even 20+ dui convictions back out on the roads. A quick search of the Ohio database for repeat offenders (which has been controversial because most repeat offenders are left off) gives 9 repeat offenders with my zip code. They have been convicted 8,5,6,5,6,5,5,5, and 5 times.

We actually know of someone who killed another person while driving drunk. She got 6 months in a minimum security prison for it. That’s it. No remorse whatsoever… wouldn’t even admit that she had committed a crime.

Pathetic.

23

I am sure Oscar Grant’s family feels the same way.

24

Well, if the law allows her to ask for clemency after two years, you can bet she’ll ask for it. I mean, rationally, what’s the downside to asking?

Like it or not, the law has always treated taking a life with malice (and malice plus premeditation particularly) more seriously than taking one through negligence or carelessness. Actually, a DWI fatality is among the more severely punished of the “oops, I killed you” crimes.

As an example: a few years back in State College PA, a man killed a bicyclist while driving while legally blind. Around the same time, a man killed a pedestrian while driving drunk. The drunk got two years; the blind guy, house arrest.

Both of these crimes are “operating a vehicle with a known medical deficiency.” (The fact that one medical deficiency is voluntary is irrelevant, IMO.) I see no difference between the two acts, yet they are usually punished differently–lighter for the (typically elderly) driver with failing eyesight.

25

A lawyer once told me that pleading ‘not guilty’ doesn’t necessarily mean exactly that. It means that the defendant wants to a chance to discuss the issue in court.

Also, a friend used to work in the state offenders aid office. One of her charges murdered someone and received a life sentence. He was out in 6 years. I am not suggesting anything about the case you present here. This is just perspective as to why she might want to approach the court for clemency.

And the court can, and likely will, send her back to jail. Such a request is o more than that. If you like, put a petition together that states why the defendant should remain in jail. Present it to the prosecutor if they will accept it. It will not just help the family of the deceased, it will help you too.

26

I have little sympathy for someone who drives drunk repeatedly and then kills someone. That person deserves a stiff sentence in my opinion. That said, however, I have a few comments:

  1. Incarcerating people is horribly expensive
  2. Incarcerating someone does not change that person for the better–the only real thing it accomplishes is to isolate the person from society. Sometimes that’s necessary–other times, people receive long sentences who don’t necessarily need to, because of the way our criminal justice system works.
  3. Long sentences, in my opinion, do not deter anyone. Sensible, rational people are deterred by far less, and the people who are the problem in the criminal justice system aren’t deterred by anything.
  4. Our current criminal justice model (longer and longer sentences for crimes, and not much else) demonstrably is not cost effective. We simply cannot continue to lock up more and more people and expect to have a fully functioning society.
  5. We have get tough on crime and victim’s rights running out of our ears.
  6. No–I don’t have solutions. I just wish people would start thinking and get past the “lock them all up” mentality. It doesn’t work.

Scrabbler

27

People want to be tough on crime but don’t want to pay for it. That’s why we have prison overcrowding, early releases, and the like. It’s also why our court system is so crowded and dysfunctional. If I had my way, every “tough on crime” measure would include a tax increase commensurate with the cost of implementing it–including the cost of the incarcerations it will bring about.

28

I agree with the rest of your points, but I would respectfully disagree with the statement that long sentences do not deter anyone. They deter the incarcerated from reoffending. If we kept convicted violent offenders off the streets far longer we’d have far less violent crime.

As to the cost of long sentences, they need to be compared to the cost of investigating the crime of a reoffender, recatching and rearresting that person, the cost of the damage that person did upon reoffending, and the costs of trying and convicting that criminal again for the new crime, along with the cost of the additional appeals and the cost of again incarcerating the criminal. I’ve never seen such a comparative analysis done, but I’d submit that the real cost of allowing violent criminals out early and/ or not giving them long sentences is far higher than the cost of simply keeping them in prison.

Considering costs would also be incomplete without considering capital punishent. I’m a strong believer in capital punishment for aggrevated violent crimes and for repeat violent criminals. The comedian Ron White said on stage “in Texas, if you take someone’s life, we take YOUR life”. I happen to believe it’s time to reconsider capital punishmenet for specific categories of violent crime.

29

I think we’re talking a difference in semantics. I agree that isolating a person from society by a long sentence is generally effective at preventing that person from preying on society at large. However, I distinguish that from deterrence, which I would define as discouraging people from committing crime in the first place because of the THREAT of punishment. My point was that the threatened length of incarceration does not need to be long to discourage the average person from committing crime–and no threatened sentence, no matter how long, will discourage the hardened recidivist from committing crime.

I make the distinction because the “isolation” approach is horribly expensive. I agree, it’s necessary for some people. In particularly, and to the point of this particular thread, certain people repeatedly drive drunk until they kill someone. I don’t know what else to do with these people but isolate them.
But used as a general practice I question both isolation’s effectiveness and its morality.

You make a good point re the costs of repeatedly rearresting and retrying people. I would only point out that my own state, California, already has quite lengthy sentences for violent offenders, particularly those who repeatedly commit violent crimes, use weapons, or do so for a gang.

Re capital punishment: it is very expensive compared to imprisonment for life. Any detailed comment would be out of place on this web board, but my short comment is I would limit it to a VERY small category of offenders.

Scrabbler

30

I’m pretty much in agreement with mountainbike. I don’t have a problem with giving someone a break on a first offense but that all depends on the offense and any other actions.

There’s a certain percentage of people who commit capital crimes who should be shown the way out of this world ASAP. The woman in NYC some years ago who murdered her 2 toddler boys by putting them in a clothes dryer and burning them beyond recognition or the career criminal from MN who was released here and abducted, raped, stabbed, and strangled a 6 year old girl are a couple of examples.
These people do not deserve one atom of counseling, rehab, accomodation, halfway houses, or anything else. They just need to be removed from existence, period.

31

My point on the cost is that keeping convicted violent criminals in prison for long terms is probably actuuallly cheaper than letting them go back out, commit another violent crime, and then have to go back through the extrememly expensive prcess of investigating the crime, tracking down and arresting the criminal, and trying, convicting, and reincarcerating them. When the costs are looked at, the only one ever looked at is the cost of incarceration. No study I’ve ever seen has looked at the costs of letting them back out into society.

I feel that keeping them from recommitting in itself deters violent crime just by keeping them off the streets, and that’s enough reason all by itself to do so, but by your definition of deterrence I still believe it deters crime. If home invaders and robbers knew they’d go to prison until they were old and infirmed in caught they might just think twice about invading homes and committing robberies. I know that the possibility of short sentences certainly doesn’t deter them.

Re: the capital punishment, I agree that the categories for which it should be appropriate should be limited, but were we to go into detail I suspect our lists would differ. We have a case here in NH wherein three young men carefully selected and then broke into a home where a mother and daughter were alone. They hacked the mother to death with a machete, then stabbed her 27 times with a knife, then hacked the daughter up. The machete hacks were so violet that one went completely through the armbone of the mother, and another cut into her skull. The daughter played dead and by doing so survived the attack, but badly hacked up. The forensics experts proved that the mother survived and fought back throughout the attack. She “bled out” after the attack. Why did these young felons do it? They did it just for fun. The leader bragged about it afterward. Because the death sentence in NH is so limited in its scope, none of these felons fit the criteria for the death penalty.

32

About NYC,have you ever heard Springsteen sing “41 Shots” do you know the inspiration for the song?

I am for capital punishment, but people should not be denied access to exculpatory evidence or denied scientific methods that may prove their innocence. The police and D.A’s cannot be trusted enough to have the potential for capital punishment. Clean up the police and the D.A’s and I am on-board

33

Well stated, OK4450.

Not removing violent criminals from society is IMHO a dereliction of duty of the judicial system, and even of our legislatures in passing “easy out” laws. And life sentences, while I’d far prefer them to what’s currently happening, only makes convicted violent offenders a burden to an innocent people. We deserve better. They deserve nothing. They gave up any and all rights and any and all claims to sympathy the moment they committed the crime.

34

Thus leaving the job half done? (I want to make it clear I am only joking.)

35

I believe in capital punishment, but it has become obvious we can’t trust lawyers and judges to do this. I first realized it some years ago when it became evident a man on death row was innocent. And, the DA said it didn’t matter if he actually did the crime. All that mattered was he had a fair trial. We cannot trust anything to people that stupid.

So, my preference is capital punishment by potential victim. “Yes, officer, I am sure that is the man who attempted to rape my daughter, the man right there with a big hole from my .45 ACP in his head. There can be no confusion, because he hasn’t moved an inch since he attacked her.”

Years ago. an acquaintance told me he believed jail sentences were deterrents against crime. Not for a small number of evil, vile brutes, who will be deterred by nothing but major firepower, but for most of us. We are deterred by even modest jail sentences from almost every imaginable crime, big and small. If there were no sentences for any crimes, a lot more people might be doing them. I knew for sure it was true for me. The thought of one night in jail creates extreme obedience in me.

Also, it is apparent we are too eager to toss people in prison for long periods of time. There is no reason to believe the behavior of our population is any higher than in other countries, yet our per capital jail population is the highest in the world. Higher than China or Russia or?

So, it is clear we are jailing people for crimes other nations deal with, without prison time. Or, we are making the sentences much longer.

Yes, I have a list, but as someone pointed out this has to do with a specific crime by a specific person.

By the way, a buddy at work said he believes in Devil’s Island. Take those who have shown they will not live within the rules of society and pop them out on that isolated Island. Tell them, you have refused to live within the rules of civilized society, you have been a predator, now you can be prey for predators bigger and stronger than you. Enjoy.

36

Pursued for a liftime over bread and candlesticks,transported to Austraila for a loaf of bread. Sometimes the most violent predators wear the robe or a badge.

37

I don’t necessarily believe capital punishment is warranted in every case as there may be some extenuating circumstances behind it nor do I believe it should be applied in a case where there is even a hint of doubt.
The cold-blooded cases where there is absolutely no doubt is a different story.

There was a story on TV the other day about a career criminal sent to prison for murder. While in prison he was directly involved in not one, but three inmate murders.
What did they do? Paroled him anyway.
What happened then? Only out 30 days he murdered a security guard and was sent back to prison.
What’s about to happen? He’s up for parole yet again and is due to be released before Jan. 1, 2011, has publicly put out a contract on the officer who arrested him, and has threatened to get the officer himself if necessary.

Just my opinion, but this guy used up all of his chances a long time ago and it’s time to make sure he never gets another chance.

38

Stuff happens, revenge is not rewarding to your soul.

39

This isnt a car issue

40

General Discussion. My mistake. Carry on…