snip…Could you indicate to him that my target market ? those concerned with the environment…snip
Like most other Americans right now, you’re probably not a target market for anything. That’s the main problem with the car. There is no market.
And to tell the truth, I don’t get the “drive a hybrid to Washington” thing either. Hybrids show their best side in city driving, and as far as I know, most of the trip from Detroit to D.C. would be via the 80 and the 70.
Meanwhile, though, if you really want to play at the architect’s level of this discussion, rule number one is always: ditch your useless infatuation with trendy technology. Don’t think hybrid, don’t think ethanol, don’t think “foreign” oil, don’t think foreign versus domestic.
So she bought a car she doesn’t really like because she made an unwise commitment? Perhaps she should learn a lesson from this instead of blaming someone else.
If the environment was really your top concern, you would buy the most fuel efficient vehicle available in your price range. Let’s face it. Buying a car made by union labor was obviously a higher priority or you would be driving something like a Toyota Yaris or a Honda Fit.
Most of the responses to the web lackeys favorite letter take care of her nonsense better than I could.
I’d like to pose a question to Doug Mayer. Is that a bias I detect picking that letter of all the others to post? I started blogging yesterday, in the “Should we bail out Detroit” section. I caught the last minute of Car Talk, and either Tom or Ray made a joke, funny yes; like late night comics are funny. Tom (or Ray) said they got rich fixing the domestics, so yeah he’s for the bailout. He mentioned there is a great discussion on their web site.
There was nothing wrong with late night comics constantly making fun of John McCains age, I laughed. But this Big 3 always being the butt of jokes, or a reporter, over and over , even when they have something complimentary to say about Detroit, always saying, but…, this is part of the reason they need a bailout now. The joke is partly on the ones who never give them a break, and we are all going to pay.
This forum is great especially when I have another “public policy” agenda on my mind. www.theyokelnews.com. How come my adress doesn’t come up as a link?
I’ve been a great fan of Tom and Ray and NPR for years but I think there is a bias. I hope people go to the 2nd discussion about Detroit bailout and see what else I and others have said in last 24 hours.(
All three US and a number of Japanese manufacturers participated ing the Partnership for New Generation Vehicles (PNGV) which was subsidized by the Federal government. They all prodcued 3X cars, cars that would get 3 TIMES the fuel mileage of a standard mid size car, like the Taurus. Yes, Ford built a Taurus that got over 80MPG! It had a small 3 liter diesel and a HYBRID powertrain. After the program ended, only Honda and Toyota continmued research and development; the rest scrapped the cars and went back to trucks.
The gasoline engine in the Malibu has the same displacement in both hybrid and non-hybrid form. Honda uses a substantially smaller gas engine in the Civic hybrid (27%). They can do this because the Civic uses a higher voltage battery than the Malibu does. The smaller engine provides better mileage, even on the highway.
Understood, but that isn’t necessarily why Honda’s hybrids get better fuel economy on the highway than in city driving. Like the Malibu, the Toyota Prius also gets better fuel economy around town than on the highway. The difference (at least between the Civic hybrid and the Prius) is related to how the electric motor is used. With the Prius, the car is primarily propeled by the electric motor, while the gas engine charges the batteries and provides extra power when needed. Honda’s hybrids, on the other hand, primarily use the gas engine, and the electric motor is only used for extra power when in demand by the driver. So with the Prius, the gas engine must charge the batteries at highway speeds, requiring both the electric motor and the gas engine to work at the same time. On the other hand, the Civic hybrid can run on the highway without using the electric motor at all when extra power isn’t needed.
I don’t know how the hybrid Malibu’s electric motor is used, but in any case, it isn’t accurate to generalize about hybrid fuel economy, and the difference is probably related to more than just engine size.
Ann Cohen mentioned him. Here’s some idea of what it’s like when our government steps in, sort of the proverbial, “I’m from the government, I’m here to help.” routine.
For every auto manufacture there exists a direct correlation between engine size and vehicle weight. A hybrid can bend these rules slightly because the electric motor is more efficient to supply power at low speeds, stopping and starting without wasteful idling, regenerative breaking advantage etc. The standard Civic at 2633 lbs is powered by a 1.7 liter engine. The Civic hybrid at 2877 lbs is powered by a 1.3liter engine.
The Chevy volt is claimed by GM to be a fresh new technology to put GM ahead of all competitors. Unlike a hybrid which is driven directly by both a gas engine and an electric motor, the Volt is only directly powered by its electric motor.
The Volt is comparatively an extremely heavy all electric car of 3520 lbs with the addition of a 1.4 liter engine used only to charge the batteries. It makes sense that fully charged batteries alone would take the car 40 miles. What happens after 40 miles is magic…
Indeed! No one else would think they can sufficiently propel a 3520 lb car with a 1.4 liter engine for as long as gasoline is supplied. By GM’s own standards the 1.4 liter engine would not provide adequate power for a vehicle of this weight-the GM Malibu at 3415 lbs uses a 2.4 liter engine at minimum.
However, through the miracle of energy conversion, circumventing all the laws of thermodynamics, the little 1.4 liter engine will charge the batteries endlessly and the batteries will power the electric motor and thus provide energy for mechanical power that was beyond the capacity of this same 1.4 liter engine prior to this magical conversion.
The new GM is amazing! Where can I buy some stock?
A mechanical engineer might conclude that the only time the Volt would be adequately powered on an extended trip is when it is driven downhill.
Many economists have already concluded that the extended trip for GM is all downhill.
This is very true. That said, I am stunned about the dealers in this case. Assume you are a GM dealer and obviously you are not the default dealership for an average American these days. When you see someone who is eager to buy your product (specially in this case, not because your product is better) please move your a… a bit and help to seal the deal.
Apparently it takes a bankruptcy to address our dealers arrogance.
“…it isn’t accurate to generalize about hybrid fuel economy, and the difference is probably related to more than just engine size.”
But that’s just what you did. The point is that by using higher voltage batteries, the gas engine plays less of a part in propelling the car and can therefore be smaller. In general, a smaller engine requires less fuel.
FACTS FIRST. Who says we don’t want big 3 Cars? On balance, year-over-year, GM and Ford each sell more cars in America than Toyota by a wide margin.
GREAT!! Then I guess Ford and GM won’t need bail-outs! Problem solved!
All we had to do was look at declining sales instead of net income. Why didn’t anyone else think about cherry picking the data? You just solved all of Ford’s and GM’s financial problems! Don’t you love creative accounting?
Several reliable sources indicate a typical $3,000 loss per Prius sale. I first heard that number three years ago and while I thought it might be outdated, I heard it used again a day or two ago by Mary Ann Keller (Google her), whose business it is to know these things, in a phone conversation with Bloomberg radio.
Note: It has been an affordable $3,000 loss up to now because it has been offset by typical $16,000 profit margins on SUV sales*. Toyota builds and sells more SUVs than Prius hybrids.
I’ve been looking for the sales balance figure on which the $16,000 margin is based but can’t find it. The mix may actually represent SUV and truck sales.
Wait a minute! Salesmen sell cars… crappy salesmen drive customers to OTHER cars… and most hybrid buyers are: 1. smart 2. educated 3. know about hybrid cars 4. expect to be treated like human beings. Also, since I am buying an expensive car (hybrids cost more than conventional autos) I want heated seats and bluetooth… both available on a “cheap” Ford Focus!!! A spare tire should ALWAYS be an option (ever had a blow-out in the Mojave desert at 2 am?)… and the whole raison d’etre of a hybrid is mpg’s, so bad mpg’s = bad hybrid! BTW, Consumer Reports complained about the lack of 6-speed in the hybrid… six speeds in a hybrid: a no-brainer, and yet missed in GM’s lame, half-hearted effort to create a “hybrid”.
Who gave you authorization to speak for the American people? That assertion makes the remainder of your post having questionable objective and complete reasoning ability behind it.
Don’t be unduly concerned with the 1.4 liter engine size. A typical car requires only about 10 or 12 hp to keep it going at 60 mph. The battery/electric motor drive portion will supply competitive acceleration.
Your last statement: Many economists… Please state the names of these economists. We needed these economists to predict the latest financial trouble so I could have bailed out of mutual funds into money market. Where were they when I needed them?