There hasn’t been an incentive to, since minivans are registered as trucks. They are not subject to the gas guzzler tax for that reason. Since the cost of a hybrid or diesel is significantly more than the gasoline model, it might be a hard sell. Families are often strapped for cash and the extra few thousand to buy the hybrid or diesel version may not go over well. It’s better to start with models where the extra few grand are not that important, like cars or trucks that sell for more than $40,000.
Whitey, I Grew Up In The Suburbs Of A Large City With Problems That You Have Described.
I agree that living in a city or suburbs has some draw-backs, as well as advantages. I weighed the advantages and disadvantages as they applied to me. I worked my way through college, graduated without any debt, and moved to a more healthy setting in which to raise a family.
I have been a conservative type person all of my life. I’ve always thought that was a good thing. My wife and I have played golf since we were children and our children play for their schools. We joined a club in order to save (conserve) money in greens fees. It is a very healthful family activity. We always walk when we play, avoiding riding in golf carts. I don’t consider anybody in my family a “country club conservative”, but rather (conservative) people who enjoy exercise. However if you like the names, use them.
I have nothing against the “industrialists” that you refer to, I just choose not to live in amongst the industries. I chose to leave and did.
I’m not laughing at people dying and by “environmentalists” I’m not talking about citizens who are dying and complaining of pollution near where they live. Pollution is bad and can reach dangerous levels. There’s nothing funny there. Efforts should be made to mitigate pollutants in this case.
I am referring to “environmentalists” who want to tax us for living and for contributing to “man-made global warming”. Some of these folks want us to lose our freedoms of choice with the types of vehicles we choose and punish us with taxes for using energy or giving off CO2, while countries like India and China have no intentions of participating, for example. That is the crowd we find to be amusing.
Also, I found the discussion question presented here to be amusing, not because of pollution, but because of the dilemma created when “freedom” meets “green” as these people fight a mythical beast (U.S. ending World-Wide Man-Made Global Warming). Environmental Science is a study of trade-offs.
By the way, my house isn’t white and it’s a single story dwelling.
CSA
Fair enough. I admit I kind of overreacted.
I have nothing against the “industrialists” that you refer to, I just choose not to live in amongst the industries. I chose to leave and did.
So did my parents when I was 11…HOWEVER…There are many many people who CAN’T leave. The cost of leaving far exceeds what they can afford.
I Know That And Also Know That Not Everyone Wants To “Leave”. That Is Just Fine.
CSA
I agree 100% with that.
But there is a difference in wanting to leave…and NOT wanting to live in a industrial wasteland…and NOT being able to. I don’t think the solution to NOT living in a industrial wasteland is to leave…The solution is to CLEAN IT UP.
Some places won’t be cleaned up. A close friend of mine bought a house in West Palm Beach, FL in an area that was not very built-up. After several people in his neighborhood were diagnosed with rare types of cancer, they discovered the water table had been polluted by the nearby plant, which is now closed. I can’t remember the name of the plant, but it might have been an aerospace manufacturer like Lockheed Martin or one of their competitors.
My point is that this water table probably won’t ever be cleaned. My friend has to buy bottled water until he and his wife can afford to move their three children to a safer neighborhood. I don’t know what they do about bathing.
The ironic thing is that my friend and his wife are staunch conservatives. I guess they have come around about environmentalism and the need for clean water. It’s funny how people sometimes only see the value of an issue when they are personally affected.
Just Google “Lockheed Martin pollution” and you will find enough results to make you want to throw up. These polluters have given the fanatical environmentalists legitimacy.
I just thought of something else I would like to add.
You used the phrase:
The “demographics” of the hybrid crowd synergizes way way way more readily, I should think, with the minivan crowd than with the SUV crowd.
Again, I reiterate that when things “synergize,” they create more together than they do individually. You are misusing this word.
The best rated minivans get about 20-23 MPG in combined city and highway driving.
Minivan designs incorporate maximum storage space by putting the engine under the nose of the minivan, which makes it hard to get to to service and repair. This design makes incorporating hybrid components, like an additional electric motor and the batteries, most difficult. Having the hybrid drive would mean you would need a larger engine compartment. It also means the nose of the vehicle would be longer.
Having hybrid batteries would mean the chairs couldn’t fold into the floor. Minivan owners love this feature and would never give it up. That also means there would be no use of the compartments under the floor for storage.
All of these things would leave less room for passengers, which would mean no more third row seat and and/or room for groceries behind the rear seat.
If you combine a hybrid with a minivan, you would be left with a minivan that no minivan owner would want. What would you accomplish with this, three to five more MPGs? You would end up with a minivan that lacks all the benefits of a minivan. That isn’t synergistic in any way.
It is kinda neat to look up that g/100M stat on the fuel economy website.
20/28 and 34/31 for the Escape 4cyl. FWD/hybrid FWD. It takes 5 gallons to go 100 miles in the city for the 4cyl, and 2.9 gallons for the hybrid. 3.6 gallons for highway for normal, 3.2 for the hybrid
One U.S. Environmental/Pollution Disater I Can’t Get Out Of My Mind Is The 1969 Event In Which The Cuyahoga River In Ohio Caught Fire. That Gets People’s Attention!
CSA
I know all about NOT being able to clean up an environmental mess…In Syracuse NY…there’s a lake (Onondaga lake)…one of the most polluted lakes in the world…if not THEE most polluted lake. For over 100 years…it was used as a waste disposal system for some major chemical and steel industries. Study after study after study said it CAN’T be cleaned up. Mercury content is 1500 times the acceptable limit. The lake isn’t very big (3x7 miles)…yet it doesn’t freeze during the winter.
My point is that this water table probably won’t ever be cleaned. My friend has to buy bottled water until he and his wife can afford to move their three children to a safer neighborhood. I don’t know what they do about bathing.
Yea…we have a Salvage yard here in Southern NH…that is owned and operated by one of our State Reps…It’s polluted at least 20 homes water table in the area. He had to pay to have elaborate water cleaning systems put in at a cost of $10k each home.
I don’t know about that argument. I for one would LOVE to be getting better gas mileage with my mid-size SUV. I know several people who own Mini-Vans who also would like the increased gas mileage.
Since the cost of a hybrid or diesel is significantly more than the gasoline model, it might be a hard sell.
It all depends if you are buying a base model or one that has some options. If you are buying a base model then YES the cost difference is great…But if you are buying a fairly loaded model then the cost difference is less then $2k. The Hybrid models come fully loaded. It just goes to show you how much PROFIT they make on those options.
Back in the early 1980s, they emptied and cleaned the pollution from Hoyt Lake in Buffalo, NY (no, I am not related to the man it was named after, formerly Delaware Park Lake). Finally, it was again safe for people to ice skate on it in the winter. Then a few years ago, a disgruntled deposed politician dumped salt into the lake, killing the life within it and leaving it once again unsafe for ice skating.
Mike, where do you get your $2,000 increment? I’ve gone through the Highlander web site and compared the two base model (V6 vs hybrid). The only significant difference I find between them is that the hybrid comes standard with a tow package and leather covered steering wheel and shift knob, and that the hybrid lists for $7,100 more. That’s a big chunk of change.
If you want to compare the AWD Highlander to the hybrid, it’s still a $5,650 difference. That’s the kind of difference that would carry over to a minivan. Not a lot a people want to pay a $5,000 to $7,000 premium to save some gas.
I know several people who own Mini-Vans who also would like the increased gas mileage.
Are those minivan owners willing to give up space for the increased fuel economy? The hybrid batteries would eliminate either the third row of seats or other valuable storage space. Also, the engine compartments of minivans are already stuffed to the gills. Adding more hardware would also take away valuable interior space, unless you make them even longer than they now.
Minivan owners [i][u]LOVE[/i][/u] all the seating and storage space modern minivans give them. If they want a hybrid minivan, they will have to give some of that up.
If you combine a hybrid with a minivan, you would be left with a minivan that very few minivan owners would want.
Mike, where do you get your $2,000 increment? I’ve gone through the Highlander web site and compared the two base model (V6 vs hybrid).
As I said…you CAN’T compare the base model. The Hybrid model comes FULLY LOADED. So if you buy a NOT Hybrid model with the same features as the Hybrid model (minus the hybrid)…the price difference is about $2000.
Now if you want a Base model then I agree 100%…there is no savings. But if you’re like me…and usually buy a Model that is pretty much fully loaded…then the cost difference drops. The BASE Hybrid (MSRP is $34,700)…the Limited Hybrid (MSRP is $33,070). Very close in features. The MSRP for the base model is $25,000…but with a LOT LESS features then the Hybrid.
Standard Features on the Hybrid that are NOT on the Base model…
Cold Weather package, Towing package, 4wd, Blue Tinted Head-lamps and head lights, 17" 6-spoke wheels, In glass with FM Diversity reception.
The most costly features will be the 4wd and towing package. For me…I need those. I DON’T need the blue tinted head-lamps or the 17" spoke wheels…I like the In-Glass FM antenna. If those features are NOT what you want/need then yes the Base Model is the way to go.
The only reason I brought up this up was because it’s really impossible to compare a BASE model to a Hybrid model. Most people see the price difference and automatically determine that Hybrid system is SOOOO EXPENSIVE…Well if you really compare feature to feature…it’s NOT that expensive.
I wasn’t arguing for a Hybrid MiniVan…As I stated above…a Diesel makes more sense for a SUV or Mini-Van. With a 4-cylinder Turbo Diesel you wouldn’t have to give up one inch of space to get a 20% or higher increase in gas mileage.
Whitey, You Have Just Explained To Tia What It Is She Is Missing.
I have put together some parts of her question. “Why on earth is there no hybrid minivan . . . --anyone have a suggestion for a vehicle to replace an Odyssey that’s environmentally “friendly”? I want the replacement to : -be safe -hold sheets of plywood -be comfortable -not be a gas hog. -hold bunches of kids and their equipment" “I don’t actually think that’s all that much to ask, yet year after year it’s not out there…am I missing something?””
I’m not familiar with the Honda Odyssey (none around here), but we have a Dodge Caravan (extra vehicle) that we use just for hauling cargo, groups of kids and for taking trips out of town. I wouldn’t change a thing on this vehicle and certainly would not want to give it up. The MPG is not bad at all.
CSA
I suppose a diesel minivan might sell, but would minivan owners be willing to live with the high cost of ULSD fuel and black soot all over the back of the van? I don’t think we will ever know.
That’s a very good point about the price difference between comparably equipped Highlanders. But a minivan in the mid 30’s puts it out of reach for a lot of people. If someone is going to buy the loaded model anyway, the hybrid is not that much more. The price difference between the top of the line Camry 4 and the hybrid is about $200. If that $200 works for the Sienna, then the hybrid would be about $36,000 (Sienna Limited). That’s more than $16,000 higher than the Sienna CE and $15,000 more than the LE. It seems to me that most buyers would pass on that.