Your wiring diagram is a typically useless Chiltons diagram.
I just took a quick look at the start circuit diagram at bbbind.com it,s a free web site.
If what you are hearing IS the starter engaging when it should’nt be and IF the starter disengages when you shift to drive or reverse it looks like the ignition switch is the culprit.
Take a look at the start circuit diagram at bbbind…com and you will
understand why i say that
Your Chiltons wirrring diagram does’nt even show the PRNDL.switch
OOPs edited to change “park or reverse” to drive or reverse"
Isn’t that the “A/T GEAR POSITION SWITCH” shown in the diagram? Anyway, if the ignition switch were at fault, why isn’t the motor turning over? Seems like an internal starter failure. [Edit: But maybe not…see below.]
Yep At position switch is the same, but if you want to see a properr diagram check out that link, when you are in the wiring diagram search enter the info for your car & then click engine & then 'start circuit".
So the noise is from the starter but it’s not actually cranking, does the noise go away in drive or reverse?
Good thought…I remember a case where the gear position switch (aka, neutral safety switch) got buggered up inside and power from the reverse lights was short circuiting back through the starter circuit enough to spin the motor but not engage the engine.
No, the noise can only be turned off by disconnecting the battery. I recently discovered that tapping on the solenoid also makes it stop. I did try to start in neutral, without luck. The starter never engages. I think at one time it tried but only for a fraction of a second. All I hear is that whirring sound.
It does feels and sounds like something is turning. I followed Tester’s test recommendations and will replace the starter.
Yes, it is.
The Chilton manual is all I have for this old car. I am not impressed with it and very seldom refer to it.
If you shift to reverse or drive & then reconnect the battery do you still hear the noise? If you do then this is above my pay grade. If you dont hear the noise the original problem is probably a bad ignition switch.
I did try to start in different gears. All I get is the noise. No start click. I remove the key and the noise continues. I have to tap on the solenoid and it may stop, but most of the time I have to remove the battery cable. If I re-connect it starts again, even without a key in the ignition.
Like I said, “Tester” gave me some things to check and based on that I agree that the starter is shut. Already ordered a new one.
Thanks insightful, but in this start circuit 12 volts from the PRNDL switch closes the start relay AND 12 volts from the ignition switch start pin flows thru the starter relay to the starter solenoid
If the shifter is placed in reverse or drive & then the battery is reconnected & the starter is still making this noise it’s very strange.
Once again edit to change park or drive to reverse or drive
On second thought if the starter solenoid is hung up in the closed position it could also cause non stop voltage to the starter. If that’s the case a new starter or solenoid would fix it. And that would explain it still cranking in reverse or drive.
There are other things that can make a whirring noise other than the starter motor of course, but if OP is sure it is the starter motor making the noise, be aware there’s a chance the car could catch on fire. Starter motors draw a huge amont of power, in the kilo-watt range. Keep the battery disconnected in the meantime.
Thanks, for the heads-up. Yes, the noise comes from the starter and I can feel it when I touch it. Batter is disconnected for now. Expect the get the new starter on Thursday. I already took everything around it off, air intake, water hose and moved a bunch of hoses and wires out of the way. Shouldn’t be too bad to get the two bolts off and pop the new new one in.
A new starter and 2.5 hours later my starting problem is fixed.
The old starter definitely was shorted. Unfortunately I was unable to install the new starter ordered from Rockauto. The electrical connectors on the new starter where on the opposite site and my wiring wasn’t long enough to reach the contacts. Unfortunately, the photo on the Rockaut website showed the starter from only one perspective. The pinion gear was slightly different, but I think it still would have worked.
I ended up running to a local parts place and was able to get an identical replacement.
Thanks all that responded to this thread and helped.
I had a customer have the same problem with a Honda replacement starter (AutoZone). There seems to be an aftermarket mix-up between the starters for manual and automatic transmission cars.
Concur, glad OP has got this pesky problem solved. Curious what it was that was spinning when this symptom was noted. Was the SM spinning the flywheel & crankshaft too, or had something got broke/disconnected and only the starter motor itself was spinning internally?
One time a few years ago at a chain auto parts store the attempted to sell me a replacement starter with mounting holes in completely different locations, and the gear had a different number of teeth … I showed this to the staff guy there – I brought the old one with me – and he said "well, the computer says this is the correct part … lol …
That was confusing to me also. The motor inside was spinning, but the pinion gear never popped out. I bench tested it and it showed the same symptoms as it did mounted. What I still can’t explain is why the darn thing did it even with the key removed from the ignition. I did a continuity test and it failed miserably.
There’s always battery power directly to the starter motor. At all times, as long as the battery is connected. No switch or fuse in that circuit. The internal switch contacts (starter solenoid contacts) can fail, in many cases they sort of weld in the switch “on” state from overheating, and that will cause the starter motor to engage all the time. The “start” signal from the ignition switch is what pops the pinion gear out, which then causes the contacts to close, at which point the starter motor starts turning, that’s how it normally works, . I suppose if the solenoid contacts got intermittent the motor could spin but the pinion gear stay inside. It’s usually fairly easy to expose those contacts to see what the problem is.
Yeah, like George said the starter solenoid contacts must have welded themselves together. and when the pinion gear tried to engage the spinning flywheel something (fortunately) must have broken in the starter.
When i had a similiar problem with my 87 Ranger it was caused by the BATT & START terminals in the ignition switch being shorted together. Every time i shoved the clutch in the starter would try to engage the spinning flywheel. Thats an ugly sound. Simple temp fix was to remove the trigger wire from the starter relay.
