Which brands are the best for those owners who wish to do their own Maint. & Repairs?

That one has no choice.

That’s a melodramatic predicament. Some people need wheelchair accessible transportation. Most cars don’t come with it. They have to choose one that does. I can rent a vehicle with AC.

A friend had a 1967 Ford 7 Liter convertible, four speed, manual steering. At slow speed could be a bear to turn. In the early seventies I test drove a 71 Ford F150 4X4, I don’t remember what engine, likely an FE, no PS, not too bad, but not easy either. Not purchased. Eventual purchase a CJ5 with a 304 V8, manual steering was relatively easy.

You always have a choice. Just because it has A/C doesn’t mean you have to use it.

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You have to pay for it.

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And – getting back to the thread’s original intent – A/C frustrates owner-repair b/c the components get in the way.

Sorry George, but you know this how?? Cause you have worked on so many vehicles where AC components got in the way of normal repairs otherwise?? And how often do they really get in the way, once a week, once a month, once a year, once every 5 years??

Yes I will agree that sometimes AC components can get in the way, but not enough to warrant not having AC, you know like every time I pull a engine AC does get in the way, but so does the Power Steering pump, PS is not required anymore then AC, but I will deal with the inconvenience of having a better driving experience with PS (and AC) and work with it then not having PS (or AC) on my vehicles…

Why not remove EGR systems, they can be a pain to deal with sometimes, and they are not needed to make a vehicle run? emissions aside…

Deviating from the normal production bill costs money. It’s possible that AC delete, if it was available, would cost more. That’s why some car brands, like Honda have trim levels with no additional options. It saves them and you money.

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Look for houses for sale with the option to have AC or not…

It’s cheaper for manufacturers to have less custom options like AC. Cheaper to just include in every vehicle if the volume of customers who want AC vs no AC is high enough.

When I bought my new 84 GMC pickup - almost everything was an option. There were some packages that bundled options, but even then you could still add more options. The combinations of different vehicles they could make was in the THOUSANDS. At the time vehicles from Japan were far less customized. Each trim level had a certain set of options. Very few things could be custom ordered.

by your own admission … lol …

You missed the point, but it doesn’t matter… moving on…

Allowing any differences costs more. I assume the manufacturers maximize their return. Thus manufacturers keep options that make them money. This would mean either that so many people insist on AC that it’s unprofitable to make it an option or they don’t care about purchasers who do don’t want it, perhaps because they aim to sell to wealthier customers. The sad day may be that so many people want AC. Will you lament the passing of manual transmissions?

I guess it’s better than the old days when dealers had only the highest-profit vehicles on site, hassled customers who wanted basic versions. The manufacturers got the best of both: they advertised the price of the unobtainable minimal version while dealers hectored customers into buying expensive versions.

Quite the animated discussion here. :wink:

FWIW, I’ve been an engineer in the automotive industry for more than a decade, and the only OEM I’ve worked with that considered design for serviceability was Toyota. If course, that consideration doesn’t really cover major repairs (which wouldn’t be frequent enough to make a difference), but rather ease and accessibility of things like the oil drain and filter, air filter, etc. (As an example, the previous-gen Tacoma’s air box cap was held on by clips, and there was sufficient clearance next to each one to get even large fingers around them. In contrast, the one on my 2012 Chevy Sonic was held on by a dozen torx screws.)

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That’s true. But the other aspect you keep downplaying or ignoring is that they also maximize profits by keeping costs as low as possible. Kitting parts for builds costs money. The more common the kits can be, the less it costs in terms of labor and space. Interrupting a line to make 5 unicorns is not cost effective. The business will always cater to the majority of customers. They may entertain some level of customization but you wait 6 months because they have to coordinate with the production lines to run that particular configuration through a particular segment of the build process. All that extra effort costs money- way more than the hardware involved. Thus, once the technology exceeds a certain threshold of acceptance and cost, it becomes standard equipment.

My inlaws want a new fridge but one without an icemaker. Same situation…

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+1

I never was fond of sun roofs but it came for free with my Accords. In 2005 I decided between a Buick LaCrosse and an Accord EX V6. The Accord with a sun roof was less expensive even without the $1000 sun roof option on the Buick.

Years ago my sister asked me about having AC added to the car she owned. IIRC it was a small Toyota. I advised it would be very complicated and expensive, impractical. She asked the dealer and they were able to do it at a cost she was willing to pay. The mounting points for the compressor, for example, were already there. Who knows, maybe even an unused pulley on the harmonic balancer.

I am pretty sure the sun roof is part of the EX trim Package that you or the 1st owner paid for…

Year ago, I have taken (auction vehicles) mint vehicles with out AC, and driven hard and put up wet, very rough vehicles with AC,
and swapped the AC from one vehicle to the other… It was a PIA, but everything swapped over and bolted right up… New car dealers years ago (don’t remember which ones) used to have what was called dealer installed AC, it was a little different than factory installed AC, you had to make sure you ordered the correct parts when doing repairs down the road…

Of course. My point is that they sold packages rather than individual options. IIRC the packages incorporated everything in the lower trim level and then added features. At the time they had DX, LX, EX, and EX-L trim levels.

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I didn’t ignore or downplay it.

Then what’s sad is either that so few people want not-AC or mfgers care so little about such cheapskates they don’t build for them. There are other options on these cars, no?

I bought a fridge without a couple of years ago without problem.