@Docnick said, ". . . seems very few actually “drive a car into the ground” . That’s hard to do nowadays, because cars don’t seem to fail spectacularly like they used to. Used to be you’d throw a rod, or the engine would catch fire, or the car would break in half or the transmission would fall out going over railroad tracks, and you knew it was done. I had planned to drive my current car “into the ground”, but its more like ‘death by a thousand cuts’; i.e. a series of $150 - $600 repairs over and over until you feel like you’re making a car payment to the mechanic instead of to a bank. Every time I get fed up and say, “That’s the last time I spend money on this car.” I get about a 9 month stretch with no repairs, so when the next one does come, then I think, “Well, what’s another $300, still cheaper than a car payment.” (Leaving aside for the moment the fact that I refuse to borrow money to buy a car - that’s another discussion. 
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Personally, I’d rather pay my mechanic than my bank, everything else being equal. My mechanic needs the money, my bank doesn’t.
“Personally, I’d rather pay my mechanic than my bank, everything else being equal. My mechanic needs the money, my bank doesn’t.”
George…I like the way you think. You kind of remind me of me.
It is the down time that kills me. We need our cars, rentals are a hassle, having an extra back-up car right now costs too much on our insurance.
@JoeMario, in many, if not most, cases, charities contract out the collecting donations. Charities are lucky to see 50% of donations because of this.
Agree with @GeorgeSanJose in principle; but at some point I don’t want to pay my mechanic OR my bank, enough is enough. I really miss the days when I could drive & drive and all I ever seemed to need was oil changes and the occasional muffler. I have the back up car and its still a hassle, dropping off the car & wait & wait & hope the other one doesn’t break down until I get the first one back. 
Regarding donating to charity, I guess that’s another minefield, because you never really know if you’re helping the people you want to help. (No good deed goes unpunished!) Maybe it would just be better to sell the car to a scrapper and then directly write a check for the same amount to your favorite charity? There’s a junkyard in my town that advertises (sometimes $300 sometimes $400) for any complete car with a clean title, but you have to bring it to them. I’ve known a couple of people who’ve taken cars to them, and they usually find some excuse not to offer you the whole amount (cracked glass, etc)
Agree with that. I put over 500,000 on my Riviera work car before I got rid of it. When I look back on the costs and repair history though, I would have been better off to dump it at about 300,000 on a marginal cost per mile basis. Plus you still have to start over at some time with a new car so its just a question of when. A deferred expense not necessarily an avoided expense.
@Bing Very good point. That’s why I use a simple chart on graph paper to plot the total ownership cost per year as well as the cumulative average. You can use your computer with tables as well to do this. I used this method years ago teaching a group of farmers as to when to trade in or get rid of their machinery such as tractors. It was quite an eye opener. The “Death by a Thousand Cuts” is very appropriate. Many owners hang on to their cars for sentimental reasons.
Some years back I got a quote from a very good shop to repaint my 1988 Caprice which had peeling paint. The quote was over $5000 for a first class job. At that time the market value of the car was only $3000, but the mechanical condition was close to 100%. So I went for a $1450 MAACO non-clear coat job that looked very respectable and allowed me to get another 6 years out of the car before selling it for $1400.
One of my contracts in the past was to evaluate a fleet of 100 ocean freighters and weed out the bad apples. The firm had a coal carrier that was rusting out and deemed unsafe by the insurance industry. I estimated $4 million US to refurbish it so it would be OK for another 5-6 years before more work was needed. I condemned the ship in its then current condition as being hazardous to the crew. The owners wisely chose to scrap it and send it on its way to one of the many shipbreaking yards in India.
P.S. When new and used car prices rise rapidly, you may find it more economical to hang onto your current car longer, provided it performs the way you expect it to. This happened in the 70s with the first energy crisis.
The above points are all good but there is something missing from the discussion, unless we all want to view cars as purely utilitarian. The question could be similar to asking “When do you buy new clothes?” or “How often should I trade up my golf clubs?”
For me the answer is about every 3 years. I just can’t stand driving the same car longer than that. Currently my 2 daily drivers are a Ford Explorer and a Lincoln Town Car. I have had the Lincoln for almost 6 years, which is longer than I have owned any other car (other than a project car) in my life.
How do you quantify the idea of seeing a new car and thinking “Hey, that looks more comfortable than mine” or “Wow that car looks like it’s fun to drive.”
When I was a kid my dad had a friend who would trade in his car every year. Not on a new one. And not the same kind. He had everything from a Cadillac Seville to a Chevy Citation. But there are people out there who trade in for a new model every year or two. And it’s those trade ins he sought. By always driving a car that is one to three years old you will have a minimum of maintenance expenses and virtually no repairs. How does that fit into the equation?
@aseemaster Good points! It depends a lot on your personality and your tolerance for breakdowns.
I once worked with a guy who had worked for GM and was a real “car nut”. During the 8 years we were in the same company, he had:
- A Corvette
- An Alfa Romeo sedan
- A Datsun 280ZX sports car
- A Mustang
- A Ford Escort GT
- A Porsche 914
The above not necessarily in that order. The joke was that he would trade cars when the ashtrays were full.
Trading too often keeps you busy getting the bugs out and the next owner will profit from that.
On the other hand, I can understand people wanting to trade every 3-4 years. I have a friend in Europe who leases and gets a new car every 3-4 years. He does the barest amount of maintenance and is not mechanically inclined. He writes his cars off against his consulting business and lives worry free.
The reason I posted this question was to get an idea what the thinking was across the board. Interesting to learn that there are posters who, because of their skills can keep a car running reliably long past where it is actually economical. Those posters must love their cars, since few of us would want to nurse a car he did not really like. I had a Mercury Comet, small 6 and it was impossible to like that car. Ended up giving it to my mother in law for grocery shopping and she liked its compact size.
So, if cost is not an issue, you do whatever floats your boat. The late Peter Sellers (Inspector Clouseau) had 31 cars, one for every day of the (long) month.
My neighbor across the street has a Ram pickup, but on his 50th birthday his wife gave him a new Mustang. She drives a Nissan Maxima and the son a Nissan Sentra. Their driveway is very busy.
This thread has been very informative; I welcome new and different viewpoints.
I don’t think leasing in the US is a good idea, if you can’t write it off, as your friend is able to do
People who write leases off could also easily take the per mileage rate per IRS and write that off and drive a beater. Financially it is more rewarding. Now I understand, some need to be SEEN in an new car every 2-3 years to keep their business image (well at least here in CA).
But as far as driving cars into the ground, I have not been able to do it. Already work 80+ hours per week, so spending a full weekend under the car fixing stuff really puts a dent in my quality of life. And as mentioned above, the one car that needed a lot of repairs for the last 3-4 years of its life with me, cost me as much as it would have to get a newer replacement.
I also like to change cars. In my younger days, I was your wheeler dealer. Would buy cars that had the basics and would fix everything else over the next 6-12 months while driving them and then sell them for a profit and move on. Nowadays I don’t have much time for that either. When a good deal comes up in the net, someone snatches it up in an hour, while I am still at work.
If the car is used to ferry customers around, a beater is not an option. Late model cars are pretty much required for professional sales people. Would you think a real estate agent is successful if they took you around in a GEO Metro? Would you give your business to someone that can’t afford a larger and more modern car?
@db4690 I agree, the Tax structure has a lot to do with it. I would not lease a car personally here, even though I have a business. My European friend seems to make it work there and he does not really want the responsibility of ownership.
I admire those who can do significant shade tree work on a car. Even though I was trained in the army as a mechanic, I’ve limited myself over the years to routine maintenance and some minor body work. Even with that I’ve managed to economically drive cars till they were 22 years old, by never got to 400,000 miles, as some have.
You do have to count your hours and put some value on them, unless it’s your main hobby that keeps you out of trouble.
@jtsanders Of course a business car has to look that way. Realtors, for instance, need roomy 4 door vehicles without blemishes. I remember a PIPE SMOKING guy who passed his realtor exams, then went into business with a bile green 2 door compact AMC hatchback, while still smoking his smelly pipe… My wife predicted he would not last long. He didn’t. EMPATHY is one requirement for success in sales.
One of my sales cars was a 1962 Pontiac Catalina 2 door Hardtop. But I did not need to ferry too many customers around and I was selling diesel engines to industrial clients at that time. I smoked cigars at that time but never in the car.
On the other hand I have seen someone with an immaculate 10 year old E320 Mercedes impress his clients and be quite successful.
Concerning realtors . . .
A relative of mine is a realtor, and she actually did have a Mercedes-Benz E320, which was mechanically and optically immaculate. I know, because I did a few repairs/services over the years.
Anyways, when it got on in years, she felt it was hurting her image
So she sold it to somebody she knew, who always admired the car
And she got herself a brand new Lexus GS something or other, the midsized RWD model, I believe
The only problem is this . . .
Her business did NOT decline as her Benz got older
And her business did NOT increase when she got the new Lexus
That’s a very different situation to the one I mentioned. An older luxury car is still a luxury car, and if it is in good shape can still function well for a realtor. A Nissan Sentra, especially an old beater, would be a very poor choice.
@db4690 Your relative obviously had both empathy and good taste. A 10 year old Mercedes does not look outdated because of the slow style changes and the low number sold.
If you were starting out as a realtor today, a Lexus might be aa better choice. Either car inspires confidence.
The Benz was 12 years old when she sold it. At that point in time, it wasn’t very exclusive anymore. Literally any crackhead with a pulse could walk onto any used car lot and buy one. In my neck of the woods, almost any 12 year old car won’t get anybody’s attention. It would have to be something exceedingly rare or collectible