What new cars have older features and reliability without the newer complexities and styles?

Buying/Selling
1

Mostly curious as cars are getting more complicated with more things to go wrong. I wonder what is available that has these things:

  1. Available without low profile tires. Must have 16" rims or smaller.
  2. Has traditional hydraulic power steering.
  3. No digital anti theft system that requires modules to talk to each other and possibly be paired with dealer tools. This can be a big problem when the vehicles is older and the dealer doesn’t support it.
  4. No internal timing belt
  5. Can be connected for towing without having to screw something in to the bumper. The car itself not having a plastic pop out for a threaded rod, not talking about hitches.
  6. Pulling in too far to a parking space and hitting a parking block will hit something metal, such as the tow point (see previous point), and not something plastic like the bumper cover.
  7. Can be pushed in neutral with a dead battery without a special tool to access a shift lock override.
  8. No color graphical display. Prefer a separate radio that can be upgraded or replaced if possible.
  9. No airbag sensors right up front behind the bumper cover with no solid protection where a deer hit can deploy the airbags.
  10. Power window switches directly control windows. No body control module. It’s not that important. Mostly the buttons use resistors to multiplex or something and they can get dirty and then up becomes down or nothing at all.
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2

Most vehicle manufactures have that information on their web sites. I am not going to do your research for you.

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I bet none.

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4

My bil had a 55 ford that pretty much fit those requirements. My 59 Pontiac would probably be disqualified because of the wonder bar radio. For all the money saved by buying used, you could have new drive train, new interior, new body panels and paint, etc. and have an appreciating asset. If you must buy new, I think there is an Indian brand tata or something that might work but don’t think the Feds would approve.

5

Your list looks like you looked through all the features offered on most new cars and then added “Must Not…” to your list.

After you do your own research (as has already been suggested…) why don’t you post the results for the rest of the members… That would be a contribution…

6

Agree with @texases … None.

Even the lowest level cars…. Nissan Versa and Mitsu Mirage… don’t qualify for this list. And both have been discontinued.

7

All the quads at Bass Pro Shops qualify. They’re kind of like a mix between a 1930s and a 1990s vehicle. The only problem is the motor vehicle laws.

The thought of a failure of electric power steering causing the wheel to turn by itself is scary. The throttle by wire has had issues with Toyota and Ford. Maybe EPS problems are next. Would hydraulic P.S. ever do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDA-fj8m_-4 ?

8

Obviously, no current car will qualify.What I suggest is that you seriously go down that list and rate each item as to its relative importance. Then, when you investigate your options, something might rise as the best fit for you. One item I don’t see on your list that is on my list is overall reliability. While some of your items are related, I personally am more interested in avoiding the car shop completely, rather than nit-picking about which reasons are OK and which are not OK.

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Don’t believe it. Many Quads have EPS and sophisticated electronic ignition and other controls. They also have anti-theft features. Heck my 2012 Polaris ATV has EPS and a host of features like descent control- they need a computer for that…

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I especially like item five. No modern vehicles screw anything to the bumper! Older vehicles with chromed, steel bumpers often required drilling the bumper to add a trailer hitch. The only possible exception, and I have not looked at a new truck, is a step bumper on a truck with a hole for a trailer ball.

I think you are looking for a vehicle made before the “5 MPH” bumper became a requirement. Perhaps a 1968 Impala with a 427? But you likely would still need to “screw something to the bumper” to tow.

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Exactly. Every vehicle I own has a hitch, many of them I added. Every manufacturer has preset holes in the chassis or frame for a hitch. The exceptions- are my trucks that have receivers welded to the rear frame crossmember from the factory.

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12

My first EPS vehicle had fantastic steering… and it was a 2000 model year Honda. Both my cars have had EPS for over a decade… my ‘04 truck is still hydraulic. The industry has over 26 years to get it right and the lack of accidents attributed to the steering proves the reliability.

The Hyundai instability looks crazy, but the power assist still works. I have never had the steering system go full lock under power… and that is a failure mode that should be dealt with within EPS software much like throttle by wire… ALL of my vehicles have that.

Throttle by wire has 2 sensors in each pedal (one ramps up while the other ramps down) and BOTH must match what the ECU needs or the ECU ignores it.

It has been a while so memory is fuzzy, but when steering sensors were being developed back in the early 90s, the issue was “crossover” as you exceeded 180 degrees in either direction (3.5 turns lock to lock). A dual sensor with 90 degree overlap was one of the solutions. Dead center would be +180 degrees one one sensor and +90 on the other. When passing 1/2 turn right, one would cross zero degrees and the other 270 degrees so the system could identify the crossover.

13

Low profile tires doesn’t bother me. Most trucks don’t have low profile tires. I don’t understand your reasoning for it.

Vehicles I’ve owned with electronic controlled steering has been far more reliable than traditional hycraulic power steering.

Have you ever seen this as a problem? My Highlander is over 12 years old and never had a problem.

What do you mean by “Internal” timing belt. I understand for people wanting to eliminate the timing belt due to maintenance expense. Just questioning what you mean by “Internal”.

Very few cars as far back as the 60’s had that feature.

I’ve owned cars from the 70’s that would happen to. If you’re concerned then you should buy an SUV.

Which vehicle is that on?

Name the vehicle you can’t buy an aftermarket radio for. There are complete upgrades for almost every vehicle on the road except for some very few exotics.

That’s EXACTLY where you want them and deploying airbags after hitting a deer is considered a good thing.

Name a vehicle you’ve had a problem with that has this feature.

Seems to me you’re looking for Phantom problems that you perceive might be a problem but aren’t. You should do some more research.

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All-in-all, he’s looking for an automotive version of a purple unicorn. Somehow, I doubt that he will find the type of vehicle that he is seeking.

As most of us who own modern vehicles already know, the vehicles of the past couple of decades have a far better reliability record than most of the “simple” cars of yesteryear, despite the presence of a lot of technology in modern vehicles.

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+1 No vehicle I owned from the 70’s or early 80’s is even remotely as reliable as any vehicle we’ve owned from this century. Not even close.

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16

Yup!
As automotive technology increased over the years, the reliability of my vehicles has also increased.

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17

I’m thinking after the first 20 years. A lot of these systems can be made to be reliable, at least for a while. Power steering is usually just a pump or bad seals when it fails, and it doesn’t fail suddenly. EPS is a totally different thing, and it can suddenly go out completely.

A lot of people want that, rather than repairs being cheap and easy, and the industry has answered with throw away vehicles with systems that are very reliable until they do break, and when they do it costs more than the vehicle is worth to fix.

Avoiding a computer wasn’t one of the requirements. I assumed most of them wouldn’t have power steering at all.

I meant the screw in rod that goes behind a plastic pop out. Getting rid of the tow point below the bumper cover also got rid of the thing that gets hit when the front drives over a parking block. Then backing up pulls the whole plastic front end off. I’ve seen it happen.

You might not be around to tell about it had!

Toyota’s attempt to handle the throttle by wire failure modes in software was a disaster. I think that failure mode should NOT be handled by software. Actually with Toyota it was the software itself that failed, and the position sensors on the throttle were still working fine. With Toyota the software would fail and most commonly the throttle would freeze at its current position. Imagine if the same thing happened with the steering, and it just kept turning in the same direction at its last set torque.

The usual, low profile means bumpy ride, much more likely to blow out a tire with a pot hole, have to add air more often, more expensive tires.

Have you compared the cost of repairing either system if there was a failure?

A rubber belt in oil inside the engine, instead of a chain. Ford has been doing it with the EcoBoost. They call it a wet belt. Which Ford Models Have Wet Belts? A Guide to Affected Vehicles - Andrews Car Centre, Lincoln, Lincolnshire Honda has done it for years with lawn mower engines.

Ford Explorer from 2008 or so has the shift lock override under a pop out cover. You have to find the manual and look up how to access it and all that.

I guess we’ll have to disagree. I’ve hit two deer and was able to drive home and the vehicles were repaired. Having a bomb explode in my face isn’t something I would have wanted.

2008 Volvo XC70 sometimes down makes it go up. 2014 RAM 1500, the driver controls had to be replaced completely as they stopped working. They’re like TV remote control buttons. It was an easy $15 part though.

After 25 years of once a week use and 40,000 miles, which of those vehicles would require more maintenance to keep it going? I think old vehicle store better but wear out faster. Newer vehicles have more age related issues regardless of the mileage.

18

Wow! What model - of any mass-produced car brand - had electric power steering on it?

My first two experiences with EPS were less than stellar, and I blame over-engineerd overboost for the first one - my 2005 model Chevy Malibu.

For the second, I blame sheer incompetence, plus lack of quality control during assembly and roll-out.

The Malibu had no road feel, and no weight to the steering as you turned the wheel side to side. Also, it had a dart to the left that could not be cured by multiple wheel alignments over two years. Not just a pull, but a DART. I had to hold the steering wheel on that Malibu in the 1 o’clock position firmly, to keep that car in my lane!

The Sonata, even though I had read about steering issues years prior to buying it, I foolishly bought one anyway, because that particuarly trim featured a moonroof. Yeah, you could say I cared more about it having a moonroof than how the thing handled…!

So it steered fine around town, but over 50mph on highways, it would ‘bind’ and required constant correction to stay in a lane!

A Kia dealership was able help the steering a little, by OBDII-ing into the electric steering subset, and selecting a heavier (less assist) steering mode.

It definitely felt more like a normal (read: conventional hydraulic) car, but only partially helped with the on-center feel on expressways.

The 2020 Chevy Malibu I rented for an insurance claim had practically none of the issues I described on the 2005 Malibu, and had actually weight build-up and more road feel.

Key takeways:

It’s easier to design an over-boosted EPS steering system than it is to overboost a conventional steering system.

Quality control is key: From design, to component manufacture and/or selection, to assembly and final testing.

I never got to find out, but in the case of the 2011-2013 Sonatas, a lot of the binding and sticking was traced to a U.S. quarter-sized silicone rubber(?) gear-shape coupler, between the steering motor and the column going to the steering racck, of which on many of these cars, the OEM coupler disintegrated within 6 months to one year of ownership.

The effects of this coupler disintegration were felt more on higher-trim Sonatas, such as my Limited, with wider and lower profile tires.

I’m back in a conventional steering 2010 Honda Accord, and hardly give steering and maneuvering in it a second thought. If it ain’t broke, don’t re-engineer- ahem - FIX - it!

19

The thing I wonder is why do we get EPS now? There was nothing stopping EPS from existing in 1995. Sensors and motors and simple computers were all available then. Is it the 4% better fuel economy that matters now but didn’t then?

20

My car was a Honda S2000 sports car. My 2013 and 2021 Mustangs have EPS and my wife’s 2014 Audi has EPS. Honda had EPS on their 1990 NSX. GM’s EV1 had EPS in 1996.

No, it is not. It is harder. The software needs to overcome the inertia of the motor…basically make it invisible. That is difficult but the power required to “overboost” is significant and avoided by development engineers. You clearly don’t agree with their choice of “feel” dialed in. That’s OK, that’s up to you. As far as overboosted steering… Clearly you have never driven a 1960s Chrysler Imperial, Lincoln Continental or Buick Park Avenue. You could steer any one of those cars with your tongue they were so overboosted. With EPS, I can choose what steering feel I want, my Mustangs had 3 settings.

True with ANY safety system. I have had several hydraulic power steering failures when the serpentine belt came off. I have had no EPS failures. Even if the engine stalls or loses the belt, the power steering still works off the battery. That attribute alone makes EPS a safer choice.

Better keep that one… the 2013 Accord has EPS