There’s not a single car maker that hasn’t covered up problems. Do the Feds go after all of them I rhetorically ask…
Maybe they should but what would likely happen is that some lower echelon peasants would be thrown under the bus and the worst case scenario for the CEO would be a resignation with a golden parachute.
“Now should I mention what’s on that imported lettuce and tomatoes we get year round?”
Actually, there is a lot of produce imported from foreign countries…that is safer to eat than US-grown produce. Would you like me to post the particulars?
In the US it is not legal to use human or animal waste contaminated water for irrigating food crops. Simple as that but post away if you must if you think food safety in the US is somehow not as good as our southern neighbors.
@Triedaq,I disagree with your assessment of the ignition switches. Too many inexpensive parts can limit sales by turning off customers to the product. But buying the higher cost, more reliable parts can turn away customers by the high MSRP. That is what killed Saab. Either way, workers lose jobs. Should we say the same thing about Toyota for using inferior accelerator pedals that stuck? As @ok4450 said, all manufacturers make decisions that in retrospect were mistakes. Two or my daughters drove Cobalts that were recalled (one still does) and either experienced the ignition problem. Of course, I made sure that they did not have a lot ow extra weight on their key chains as soon as they got the cars. We’ve been discussing how the extra weight causes wear on ignition switches for years, as I’m sure you know.
It seems to me that ignition switches have given problems since Chrysler decided that the ignition switch and starter switch should be combined one unit where one turned the key to activate the started. I never had an ignition switch problem with the cars I owned where the ignition switch turned on and off the ignition and the starter was activated by pushing a button or stepping on a starter pedal. The first car I owned where the starter switch and ignition switch were combined was my 1965 Rambler and in the 8_years I owned that car, I had to replace the ignition switch three times. Surely by the year 2000, manufacturers should have figured out what makes a reliable srarter/ignition switch. If this isn’t possible, let"s resurrect the 1946 Ford design where turning the key unlocked and he steering column and allowed the toggle switch that controlled the ignition. to be flipped from off to on and separate starter button was pushed to activate the starter. As I remember, my. 1990 Ford Aerostar was recalled because the ignition switch was prone to start a fire when the switch was off, the key out and the car was parked. I was advised to leave the Aerostar outside at night instead of parking it in the attached garage. After Ford had a costly recall for ignition switches, I would have thought that auto manufacturers would have learned not to skimp on quality where the ignition switch is concerned.
The VW situation, however, was not caused by over-zsalous bean counters who may not have realized the consequences of their actions, but by the engineers deliberately rigging the software so that the emission controls would be bypassed in normal operation. I think reliable ignition switches can be made at reasonable cost. I am not sure that high fuel mileage minimally poluting diesel engines can be made at a reasonable cost.
To my mind, covering up an unintentional flaw or using less robust parts as a part of keeping costs down does not measure up to what VW was caught doing. VW intentionally and conspiratorially designed in a system to provide false data in testing for the purpose of evading our laws. That’s a whole heap bigger in scope than a cover up (which is also serious) or unknowingly using poor quality parts.
The exception to my statement is in cases where serious safety issues are covered up and/or not dealt with (usually by a recall that does nothing to fix the problem). Where serious safety issues are involved and covered up or repairs avoided, and where a manufacturer intentionally designs in s system to falsify data, criminal investigations should be initiated and convictions sought.
The law itself may be onerous and/or unrealistic, but that does not justify breaking it. If a company intentionally evades an emissions law, who’s to say they wouldn’t intentionally evade a critical safety requirement?
To my mind, covering up an unintentional flaw or using less robust parts as a part of keeping costs down does not measure up to what VW was caught doing.
What VW did went beyond any cover-up.
The exception to my statement is in cases where serious safety issues are covered up and/or not dealt with (usually by a recall that does nothing to fix the problem).
Like Ford and the Pinto. Someone from Ford should have gone to jail for that one.
Yup. And like my Vega. Chevy’s “solution” recall to a retainer in the rearend that fell out and allowed an entire real axle to come out, leaving the car with a wheel missing, was to “check the end play”. I had mine checked at two different dealers. It did no good whatsoever. The retainer still came off and my axle slid out.
That ended my relationship with GM for twenty years… and when I did go back (wives can be persuasive) I was not impressed with the progress they’d made.
If anyone wonders why GM went bankrupt, I can offer testimony… {
This is not a quality control issue…This is about intentionally circumventing emissions requirements by gaming the EPA with a stealth software package that created the illusion that the cars met emissions requirements…
“I am not sure that high fuel mileage minimally poluting diesel engines can be made at a reasonable cost.”
I agree
If the cars had been manufactured to LEGITIMATELY pass the US emissions testing programs, I believe the MSRP would have been significantly higher. Perhaps several hundreds higher, maybe a thousand or more, in fact
But more than that, fuel economy and power may have suffered
Combine all that, and you’ve got a car that is far less competitive, and therefore it’s a less attractive option
VW would have probably sold less vehicles, if they had tried to sell an honest product
I guess they knew that, and that’s probably why they cheated. They were probably arrogant enough to think they might not ever get caught
Hubris and greed “made them do it”
I have no problem with VW unable to sell diesels.
We can’t afford, nor do we need, to test every single car that comes off the assembly line.
Well, up until about 10 years or so ago, that’s exactly how it was done in the states that mandated yearly emissions compliance testing. The IM240 treadmill test was performed on almost every car that was registered. I spent 20+ years going through those tests on almost every vehicle I owned.
We also need to differentiate between design compliance and ongoing compliance. The EPA performs only design compliance. The states are interested in ongoing verification.
I currently live in NH which relies on the OBDII readout alone. TRUST. Now that trust has been broken. No reason the states could not go back to mandating treadmill tests. The testing today costs a bit more than the old treadmill testing. Personally, I think it is a cash cow because hardly any time or infrastructure is required to support the current method of compliance testing. They could go back to requiring treadmills and hardly affect the rate/car IMHO…
TT, the states that do any form of emissions compliance testing are doing so under mandate by the EPA. The individual states have to get their program approved by the EPA. NH required approval of the OBDII download program as a monitoring program. States were originally mandated based upon EPA air quality testing. It was subsequently proven that NH’s pollution was coming in from the industrial zones around the Great Lakes, but the mandate was never amended.
IMHO, since NH isn’t and never was the source of the air poor air quality, we never should have been required to have annual emissions testing, but once a regulatory requirement is implemented, it’s there for all eternity.
An EPA guy today said they will be doing more testing from now on. They aren’t saying what the tests will be so as not to show their hand to the manufacturers but said they will be keeping the cars longer and driving them more. I suspect there are some red faces in the EPA though and a couple that might not get their bonus this year for failing to “effectively test”. Just IMHO, but when someone sneaks through the gate with a fake ID, the guard is also in trouble.
From what I have read most cars ECMs recognize that the car is being emission tested on a treadmill in order to disable traction and stability control. VW just took it to the next level by also programming the ECM to run cleaner in this mode. Moving forward I can see all new cars being randomly tested with portable emission test equipment that will test cars in real world condition. I can also see an emission test program similar to a random drug test program.
" . . . most cars ECMs recognize that the car is being emission tested on a treadmill in order to disable traction and stability control."
I don’t know about most
In our fleet, we have mostly GM and Ford, for what it’s worth. I do smog inspections, and I have to disable traction/stability control with the push of a button, before doing the dyno run. A few months ago, I forgot to push the button, and the vehicle did NOT know it was doing a dyno run.
“emission test program similar to a random drug test”
That already exists in very basic form, but it’s more of a quick visual test. It happens as vehicles pass a checkpoint. But the vehicles are not pulled over. It’s more of a visual smoke test, as the vehicle drives by. Theoretically, if there’s too much smoke, the vehicle’s registered owner gets some kind of fix it ticket in the mail.
Was at a Disney Halloween special afternoon. Most show up in customs, one guy had a VW T-shirt. I didn’t get a chance to talk to him, but I thought to myself “neat” sense of humor.
Somebody should come out with a T-shirt with a big VW logo and the words “Dirty diesel” right below it, in big letters, naturally
Fahrvergnugen
Somebody should come out with a T-shirt with a big VW logo and the words "Dirty diesel" right below it,Um, "...done dirt cheap ?"