In our messed up world, it would be easier to convict the owners for murder, versus the VW executives
In fact, it would be easier to get a trial for the owners, versus the VW executives
This is purely hypothetical, of course
If this is believable, therefore, TDI owners contributed to the deaths of up to 100 people.
That’s just a false analogy. And WHY would the earnest be on the VW OWNERS? They had not known that VW had changed the software.
So stop the non-sense, fix the cars or take them off the road, fine them if you must, and let the market decide the rest.
That works doesn’t it??? NOT!!! So the guy who owned the Peanut Butter factory that knowingly and willingly sold peanut butter was lased with Salmonella shouldn’t be prosecuted either. Just slap him with a fine and let the market take care of it. Oh wait…it’s the person who BOUGHT the peanut butter and gave it to their kids that should go to jail. I see your logic now.
There’s a thing in this country called PUNISHMENT for CRIMINAL acts.
The “earnest” would be on the VW owners? Is that similar to the “onus”? 
Gotcha!!
Despite a decrease in particulate air pollution across the country, a new study suggests that short-term exposure to any amount of this pollution leads to a shorter life expectancy. Publishing their findings in this month’s issue of Environmental Health Perspectives, researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health found a CORRELATION between higher death rates and greater exposure to particulate matter in people 65 and older.[emphasis added] Correlation is not causation! I know the local rag had a 7-part series about air pollution in the river valleys surrounding Pittsburgh, and how mortality rates were higher around the power plants. What they DON'T tell you, is that these industrial areas are much poorer than the "baseline." As someone who has lived in both affluent neighbohoods, and in the river valley communities--the rich folk count carbs, worry about "whole foods," and in general have a neurotic complex re: living forever...whereas in the poor communities, heroin fatalities are at record highs, and menthol cigarettes are still all the rage! Of *course* there's a higher mortality rate in these communities: I'd be astounded if there wasn't!
Whatever, we need to face facts and realize we currently have the cleanest urban air since the Industrial Revolution, if not in all of recorded history. When I was a kid in the '70s, all the stone buildings were sooty, forbidding Gothic places; I just assumed that was what stone construction looked like. In the '80s, they cleaned up the buildings…and they’ve stayed that way since, giving us a clue of just how much cleaner the air is now vs then.https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3186/2303987818_e41421a2a6_b.jpg
I wouldn’t mind a “pragmatically eco-minded” governance, but in practice, we get uncompromising zealots. To co-opt a song, “You ask 'em, ‘How much should we give?’/The only answer’s ‘more, more, more!’”
This just in…
“I thought in 40 years I should have seen someone dead on the street from air pollution but never did.”
That type of reasoning is analogous to that of a friend of mine who continually buys food imported from China solely because it is…cheap. When I remind him of all of the proven instances of China-sourced food (both human food and pet food) having been adulterated or contaminated with dangerous substances, his rationalization is…It must be okay because it didn’t make me vomit and I’m not dead yet.
When I explained that long-term exposure to certain contaminants would likely have a more subtle and gradual effect–rather than immediately becoming ill or dropping dead right away–it may have given him food for thought. Or, maybe not…
Of *course* there's a higher mortality rate in these communities: I'd be astounded if there wasn't!
I suggest you go back and read the study…the cause of deaths related to air and water quality…NOT OD on Heroin.
Whatever, we need to face facts and realize we currently have the cleanest urban air since the Industrial Revolution, if not in all of recorded history.
Since the industrial revolution…I agree with…since all recorded time…that’s just plain BULL.
Air quality has improved drastically…but it still is NOT as clean as it should or can be. And industrial pollution is NOT isolated to that specific (poor area). There were many areas effected last year when Duke’s Coal Ash spilled into the Dan River. Over 70 miles were effected. Isolated??? I don’t thin so.
147 MILLION people still live in areas where air quality is POOR.
Or, Y’all could move to Minnesnowta where its cold but there are no inspections whatsoever!
Ya know we played with mercury in our science class, rolling it through our hands, got a sample of asbestos from a mine tour in the boy scouts, melted lead to make soldiers in a cast, bit on lead sinkers for fishing, now I am not saying I want to go backwards in time and expose kids to the dangers I at 62 have lived through, but a part of me says screw emissions, the major contributors to environmental hazards in our life is not car emissions
How long was Charleston out of drinking water, due to a spill? 3 weeks I think, Fighting sandpiper oil line, sure they could go a few miles north and not risk the whitefish lake chain and the Mississippi river basin.`
how many oil spills ruining places does it take, or maybe it is fracking earthquakes, or patented pollutants that we do not know what they are being injected and potentially affecting aquifers, or as in WI dried up lakes due to dropping water level by high capacity wells, legislature says, no review necessary.
Please help watch our environment, it is the only one we have for now.
Since the industrial revolution..I agree with...since all recorded time..that's just plain BULLInteresting. Obviously cities were smaller, but probably similar population densities (with everybody on foot/horse) and people burnt wood/coal/peat/dung to stay warm. If you say that air was cleaner, guess I'll give you that, but I'd like to know how it was determined.
And industrial pollution is NOT isolated to that specific (poor area). There were many areas effected last year when Duke's Coal Ash spilled into the Dan River. Over 70 miles were effected. Isolated??? I don't thin so.1. Air pollution is different from water--spreads out in 3 dimensions--rivers stay in the riverbank. 2. I guess the EPA could do better--likely fewer *people* affected by the Animas river debacle, but across a much larger geographic area.
he cause of deaths related to air and water quality....NOT OD on Heroin.Okay, that still leaves the menthol ciggies! (The point you missed was that poor people, as a rule, are much less likely to be heavily invested in living forever/future health. YOLO! This worldview, as a whole, should be expected to produce worse mortality stats--the two examples were meant as illustrations of this phenomenon, not as the singular causes for mortality.)
got a sample of asbestos from a mine tour in the boy scoutsMy science teacher gave us a sample, too, and told us it wasn't dangerous as a rock--it had to be shredded and easily made airborne to do any damage. (Heck, the whole asbestos remediation effort seemed silly: "This stuff is perfectly harmless, unless disturbed--so close the school down while we go disturb it!")
Here’s a good article on what led to VW’s cheating:
Sounds like they didn’t want to spend the money for the urea injection, and didn’t want to pay Mercedes to license the BlueTec system.
Okay, that still leaves the menthol ciggies!
I didn’t leave that out…because the studies were just comparing death rates caused by poor air quality. Emphysema, and cardio-vascular diseases. Those type of diseases are HIGHER in cities with low air-quality. Has NOTHING to do with meth.
And as far as meth being exclusively in poor neighborhoods…you better check your facts. It’s found EVERYWHERE. Same with Heroin. All my kids went to private high-schools. Middle class thru upper rich class students…If you’re a student there…you can get meth. There have been arrests over the years. Every time they brought the dogs for drug searches they found either heroin or meth.
1. Air pollution is different from water--spreads out in 3 dimensions--rivers stay in the riverbank. 2. I guess the EPA could do better--likely fewer *people* affected by the Animas river debacle, but across a much larger geographic area.
You’re right…but the vast majority of people live in the Cities. I live only 25 miles from Boston…but the air quality in my very wooded neighborhood is significantly better then Boston.
Back to the original post’s point , here’s something about how the “market” for the diesel cars is surprising.
@waterbuff, thanks for bringing things back on topic.
Just read a notice today that France is starting to raise the fuel taxes on diesel and lowering them on gasoline.
Because of the vast difference, more than half of new cars sold in France are diesels and nitrogen oxides are now causing an L.A. type of smog. Most diesels run clean (unlike VWs) but they inherently cause more NOX problems.
This has become a national embarrassment to the French government which usually “knows best”.
Guy at work just tried to buy two new vdubs, trading in one of his affected diesel models in the deal. The dealership said no way, they can’t sell them so, sorry. Answers the question if they will stand behind their customers…
"The dealership said no way, they can't sell them so, sorry."
I fully expect a Class Action Suit to be filed on behalf of VW diesel owners, asking for compensation for the diminished resale value of their cars. And, unlike many Class Action Suits, I don’t think that this one would be frivolous.
I really think that VW owes the owners of these cars a cash settlement for whatever documented decrease in resale value can be proven in court.