Unsafe car features

General Discussion
81

SMB, I was not suggesting a “slap on the wrist”, just something that stings, but is recoverable. Someone who is 0.08 to 0.10 is actually less impaired that someone who is talking on their cell phone and certainly much less impaired than someone who is texting.

As I stated earlier, everyone I know who was killed by a drunk driver, the drunk driver was far above the limit, 2 to 3 times the limit.

You just can’t let the minimally impaired driver get away with it just because they are not as dangerous as someone in the 0.16 to 0.26+ range is that the highly impaired drivers started out as minimally impaired drivers.

So “slap on the wrist” is ok for a first time minimally impaired driver as long as it is a good hard slap. It needs to get their attention. There should also be a national database on DUI’s to stop convicted drunk drivers from moving to another juristrisction and only being seen as a first offender, multiple times. We had a case here where a drunk driver killed a couple of people, but he had 4 previous “first convictions” in 4 different counties in two states.

82

An automobile in the hands of a safe and sober driver is an invaluable machine, capable of being a great asset. In the hands of a .08 impair driver is can become a 3,000 pound steel weapon capable of killing and maiming. Someone with a BAL if .08 should not be driving. If they’ve exhibited behaviors sufficient to attract attention and have to undergo a fiend sobriety test, they’re drunk. If they’re drunk and driving, their punishment needs to be severe. BEFORE they kill someone. Not WHEN they kill someone.

I still believe anyone failing a field sobriety test should have their car impounded, and if convicted the car should be confiscated. Let’s remove the ability of the drunk to drive (take his car away) BEFORE he destroys the lives of innocent people.

Apparently we’re not going to agree on this one. To me, a “slap on the wrist” is just setting some future innocent victim up to have his/her life destroyed. A drunk driver is a drunk driver is a drunk driver. The BAL required for conviction is already high enough at .08 that nobody should be driving with that level.

I absolutely agree with a national database, with reciprocity in the convictions. Someone convicted of a DUI in NH should NOT be able to start over in some other state with a clean record. A DUI in one state should be recognized as a DUI throughout the U.S.

83

@Bing

“There was a case in Minnesota where a guy didn’t want to drive so slept in the back seat of his car and ran the engine once in a while to keep from freezing to death. The guy was cited for DUI because he “could have driven” and had control of the car. I just think that’s ridiculous when someone is trying to do the right thing.”

I remember an instance a long time ago, when I felt I wasn’t okay to drive, so I decided to not drive myself home.

I used the key to unlock my car, and I opened up the back doors

Then, I closed all the doors and layed down on the backseat

it was cold and uncomfortable, because it was late in the year

I did not EVER put the key into the ignition

At one point, a police officer DID come by. He shined his light into the car, saw that I was lying on the back seat. Then he put his hand on the hood. Apparently, it felt stone cold to him, because he left without speaking to me.

I felt pretty stupid for probably having too much to drink

I felt pretty smart for NOT putting the key into the ignition

:neutral:

84

Db, I think cops who arrest people who try to do the right thing by using alternatives to driving, such as sleeping it off in the back seat, are encouraging drunken driving and are wrong. I have a friend who had been drinking, had to go somewhere local, and left her car in the garage and rode a bicycle… on the sidewalk. She was arrested. That. IMHO, is just plain wrong. She should have been commended by the cop for riding her bike instead of driving… or perhaps at most cited for riding a bike on the sidewalk.

85

mountainbike

I agree with you

The cop that arrested your friend with the bicycle sounds like he’s trying to prove something

I said trying, because I’m not sure he succeeded . . . ?

But if he was trying to prove he was a jerk, then he succeeded

By the way, what was the charge?

“Driving” under the influence . . . ?

Or RUI . . . riding under the influence . . . ?

All kidding aside, were there any consequences?

Points
traffic school
higher insurance rates
etc.

:frowning:

86

I agree with you 100% db.
I didn’t ask her the charge or consequences, but there are charges the cops use like “drunk in public” (or whatever the proper term is) and other charges that are just nuisances and not much else. She really wasn’t endangering anybody at all, and in fact was contributing to the safety of the community. The arrest happened years ago. The story came up while we were discussing the subject of citations after the kid rearended me a few weeks ago.

87

Yep, we’re all on the same page then. The whole idea is to keep impaired drivers off the street, not to ruin people.

88

mountainbike

That incident you described is the kind of thing that should be an article in the local newspaper

It would show that your friend was trying to do the responsible thing, and in fact was not endangering anybody, not even herself.

And it would also show that the cop’s actions were NOT helpful to anybody. There was no lesson for your friend to be learned. The community was not safer with your friend arrested. There were undoubtedly some fines for your friend to pay. And there was paper work for the cop to file. And he probably didn’t even get a gold star for his actions. I wouldn’t be surprised the police chief told him “Why did you do that?! You’re wasting everybody’s time, and it’s not worth the paperwork hassle!”

I don’t know your town, the cop, or your police force. But actions like that can only serve to infuriate the neighbors. And it is most decidedly NOT going to give them a positive opinion about the police force.

If that hypothetical newspaper article were well written, it could serve as constructive criticism. And it could open the cop’s eyes . . . “I need to get that chip off my shoulder, and I need to start seeing the big picture. I need to fight crime and arrest violent offenders, not drunk ladies riding the bicycle on the sidewalk.”

But not everybody can take criticism well

I’m not that great at it . . . :fearful:

89

Oh boy. I support the police, I really do, but . . . Most of these incidents end up in the paper like the poor guy in Duluth on his Lazy Boy, or the guy on his lawn mower, but many times the police and behind them, the local prosecutors, are simply listening to a different drum beat-like furthering their careers and visibility or fulfilling their need for power.

My wife (a 30 Middle School teacher) was late for school one morning and was stopped for going a little fast. What did the snot nosed patrolman do? He put her in the back of the patrol car as students were walking by to see. Might as well put her in hand cuffs. A heated discussion with the police chief who was a former class mate simply ended in him having to leave it to the discretion of the patrolman. Well the chief is gone and we have a new chief that seems quite reasonable. He had a certain bent and nothing was really going to change it, and he was in charge.

We had a local prosecutor that seemed to take great delight in running people through the meat grinder and chalking it up to aggressive law enforcement. Good citizens charged any time they could be and having to spend thousands and years of turmoil to stay out of jail, when they never should have been charged in the first place. It didn’t matter what pressure was brought on him and in fact the more public pressure the worse he got. Only an election took care of him. All of us in the blink of an eye could end up in a similar situation on the wrong side of a prosecutor.

Many of us at one time or another have pledged to support the state and national constitutions, take that seriously, and believe a sense of fairness is a part of this. But some of these folks in law enforcement just don’t seem to care much about their proper role and we need to be ever vigilant.
Confiscating cars, cash (I like to carry cash too just because I can), and other items just because they can is a black eye to everyone. Not sure what the answer is but I have issues with more stringent laws that can provide more power to some of these folks.

Don’t get me wrong, I have been treated very fairly and courteously but also have seen the other side. Just like always there is good and bad and black and white and a whole gray area in between.

90

A drunken bicyclist can be a danger to themselves and others. I applaud the thought but have seen one to many that should not be walking, much less riding a bike.

91

“We had a local prosecutor that seemed to take great delight in running people through the meat grinder and chalking it up to aggressive law enforcement.”

It’s not just local prosecutors who take great delight in such things in order to build-up their own resume. On the Federal level, there are people like the esteemed Chris Christie who abused his powers as US Attorney for NJ in order build up his resume and then to run for Governor of NJ.

And now, we are saddled with this curse of an absentee governor for several more years.

92

@Barkydog

I hear you . . .

Somehow, I doubt mountainbike’s friend was doing 35mph on the sidewalk, on a 21speed bike, mowing down children and dogs, running red lights, etc.

I’m sure you weren’t implying that, by the way

My point is this . . . I highly doubt mountainbike’s friend was a menace to society

What is your solution?

93

I don’t know much about Christie. I’ll take your word for what he was like as a prosecutor but the more I see of him, the less I like. I’ll say one thing about our former wrestler governor though, Jessie the Body, he might have been nuts but you always knew exactly what he thought, and hired good people.

94

I forgot about insurance. A first time DUI here can cost in excess of $15,000. When I was a teenager (1965-1971) drunk driving was subjective, decided by the Law Enforcement Officer or the Judge. I have no problem with maximum punishment for first offense. At restaurants alcohol is at least 4 times more profitable than food so servers are forced to push it. Occasionally I thoroughly frustrate alcohol pushing servers with my ice tea or even worse, water.

95

" I’ll take your word for what he was like as a prosecutor but the more I see of him, the less I like."

Then your instincts are good!
When he was US Attorney for NJ, he drove his BMW 7 series the wrong way down a street, and seriously injured a motorcyclist who was lawfully driving–the right way–down that street. When the Elizabeth, NJ cops showed up, he flashed his federal badge, asked “Do you know who I am?”, and was sent on his way with not even a summons for driving the wrong way on a clearly-marked street.

A year or so later, he was stopped for a moving violation in Lambertville, NJ, and could not produce either a valid registration or proof of insurance, but after his usual “Do you know who I am?” routine, he once again drove away in his BMW with no summons being issued.

(Moderators, please note: My response is clearly motor vehicle related!)

As a prosecutor, he brought many cases that later had to be dropped for lack of evidence. I can tell you that–in one case with which I am VERY familiar–his investigators walked out of a man’s house with large boxes of “evidence”, so that the TV cameras could capture the scene. Only a couple of years later when all charges were dropped, was it revealed that those boxes of “evidence” were…EMPTY. In the meantime, he ruined the life of a wrongly-accused man.

As for knowing what he stands for, you would do well to look at a weathervane as an example of his positions, because this bloviating blowhard changes his positions–depending on the audience–so many times that it would make your head spin. As just one example, he has taken totally opposite positions on ethanol in New Hampshire and in Iowa. In NH, he stated that he was against mandated ethanol in our gasoline. In Iowa, a few weeks later, he was strongly in favor of ethanol, and then when he returned to NH, once again he said that he is opposed to an ethanol mandate.

Meanwhile, he has been out of state more than 50% of the time so far this year, but when he is in-state, he contributes such lovely thoughts as urging people to “take a bat” to a 77 year old female state senator with whom he disagrees. Yes, that is correct, he has actually advocated physical violence against an elderly woman, and I have quoted him exactly.

96

Your take?

The president of the local NAACP branch was arrested for obstruction after the Kenosha Police Department said she told an officer she didn’t deserve a ticket for driving nearly 20 mph over the legal limit on a city street.

Veronica King, 52, of Kenosha, was instructed eight times to get back into her van after a traffic stop in the 4900 block of 52nd Street about 3 p.m. Sunday, according to police. A motorcycle patrol officer clocked her vehicle on radar traveling 44 mph in a 25 mph zone in the 5200 block of 52nd Street.

According to the police report, King told the officer she hasn’t been issued a ticket in over five years and deserved a warning. When she was informed she would be receiving a citation, instead of a warning, she became uncooperative.

The president of the local NAACP chapter has filed a citizen’s complaint against the Kenosha Police Department after being arrested for obstruction during a traffic stop Sunday afternoon.

Veronica King, 52, of Kenosha said she was “roughed up” by a Kenosha police officer — requiring a trip to the emergency room — and said she deserves an apology and to have her citations dismissed. King was cited for driving nearly 20 mph over the legal limit in the 5200 block of 52nd Street, about 3 p.m. Sunday. She was arrested for obstruction when she got out of her vehicle and repeatedly ignored an officer’s commands, according to the police report.

King, who is 4-foot-11, said she was physically unable to get back into the van, which she was using to transport four special needs adults. The 2012 Gateway Technical College Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Humanitarian Award recipient said the officer was “a tad impatient and a little insensitive” and injured her shoulder while placing her in handcuffs.

“My whole right side is affected by arthritis,” King said. “(Police) need to be a little more conscious that people do have disabilities. Sometimes people move slowly.”

According to the police report, King was told eight times to get back into the vehicle. Police said she exited the van, stood in the road, stopping traffic in the process, and told the officer “I’m no threat to you. I don’t have to listen to you.”

King asked the officer for a warning instead of a speeding ticket. When the officer told her she would be receiving a ticket, she became uncooperative, according to police.

“I wasn’t speeding,” King said. “I can’t speed. My hip doesn’t allow me to put that much pressure down (on the accelerator). I’m 4-11. My foot can barely hit the gas. The officer confused me with a speeder that went past me.”

Congrats if you can read all this, voice of the people, ie letters to the editor concludes she is not fit to drive!

97

When will they learn? Do not get out of the car. Keep your hands in sight on the wheel. Do as told. I don’t like it either but when you are stopped, you need to follow orders, exactly. The time to argue is in court.

98

The absolute best and most necessary thing to do first when stopped is to make every effort to let the officer feel safe. Do that, be respectful toward him/her, and you’ll fare far better. Theirs is a dangerous job, and they justifiably have their defenses up when they first stop you. They don’t know who you are, if you’re armed, if you’re dangerous, or what the deal is until they have a chance to assess your state of mind. Your attitude is never more important than when stopped by a cop.

Ms. King clearly goes through life with an attitude problem. In the case cited it got her arrested when she could have gotten off with a simple citation, possibly even a warning. People like her do themselves no favors.

As regards Gov. Christie, I knew nothing of him until he decided to run for president. What I’ve seen so far has made me cross him off my list of possibles. Even when he makes a statement that I agree with, he seems angry and ready to lose his temper. We don’t need that attitude sitting down with other world leaders. We need strength and principles, not anger.

99

I agree with mountainbike on both counts

Law enforcement has stopped me a few times while driving my car

I remember one time I didn’t get a citation, just a verbal warning. Unlike Ms. King, I remained in my vehicle and followed the officer’s instructions. I was very respectful, and that was probably why I was sent off with no citation.

Ms. King’s excuse about not being able to speed because she’s short is one of the lamest I’ve ever heard.

If she said “I screwed up and have no excuse” . . . she would have had a better chance of getting merely a written warning

As for Christie, he kind of reminds me of that crack-smoking mayor in Canada. Ford of Toronto . . . ? Same kind of abrasive, unacceptable personality. I seem to remember a news clip where he physically rushed somebody who didn’t see things his way

Just imagine if guys like those two were presidents or prime ministers of their country

Can you imagine either of those guys negotiating with Netanyahu or Putin. They’d probably call them names, or rush them, or cold-cock them when they turned their head to check the clock on the wall.

World War 3 would be just around the corner . . .

100

“Law enforcement has stopped me a few times while driving my car”

Holy cow, I guess I’m the expert then. I really couldn’t count the number of times I’ve been stopped. I got both warnings and tickets. In Minnesota all of the patrol have been required to take a customer service course so they are very courteous. I’m always polite but sometimes not friendly. Back when I had to cover the whole state I was on a lot of two lane roads and usually in a hurry but I haven’t had any problems in probably ten years now.

I was on my way to a move 150 miles away and doing 70 in a 55. The patrol let me go with just a verbal. Why I have no idea. I was stopped going 59 in a 55 by a county guy and just gave a verbal. I was a little perturbed. City guy stopped me on a service road going 40 in a 30 and that cost me over $100. Another state patrol going 65 in a 55 and he apologized and said I could wait 30 before paying it. The one that really got me though is the city guy hiding in the dark on my 50th birthday. About one mile of town on the highway and not a soul around at 10 pm. 40 in a 30 that cost about $130 and he never even wished me happy birthday.

Then there was the fixit ticket in Iowa for a high beam burned out. That guy was a jerk. And the deputy thought I had a beer coming out of the drive in but it was a coke. Then the flickering tail light on my motor bike that I’d rather not talk about. They’ve never ordered me out of the car though except the drive in one where he searched the car, and they never had to pull a gun. Back in 75 when the freeway was 55, a family friend that was a patrolman got me and he was sneaky too. Waited until he went over the hill and I sped up again before he turned around and clocked me. We still joke about it when I see him. But I put a lot of miles on so sounds worse than it is and I never was driving unsafe.