There has been a lot of politics of late, designed to improve the quality of education. In the eyes of most teachers, it has resulted in a big increase in non instructional work load. Because time on task is a key ingredient in memory retention, teachers have seen a decrease in their ability to teach. And, no one is throwing money at the education system to entice all those highly qualified ex business types to dive into the field. IMO, education will soon become the province of the immigrant working, like all non union jobs have the potential to do.
Yep, being taught English by a non English speaking teacher is just over the horizon. I kid you not !
Here’s the reasoning I don’t quite get. It is said workers is the public sector deserve a better combined compensation package because they typically have an higher level of education, all well and good but how can a non public sector employee that has the same level of education (simply did not get the same cushy public sector job)feel OK about someone else recieving higher compensation based on education? Out here in the private sector education may or may not bring you better compensation, in the public sector it is justification for it. Using private sector union job compensation figures to show that pay is better in the private sector is a misuse of data because very few private sector jobs are unionized. There are groups in BOTH the public and private sector that recieve protection and compensation that the average Joe(or Joshepine) can only dream (and literaly only dream) about. The only thing we have going for us is, it is still only one vote per person, no matter who you are.
That 300% you saw had a lot more to do with just changing jobs as opposed to anything else.
Mike, you do a lot of assuming for an engineer
People end up in their current job for many reasons, sometimes by choice
I’m sure that’s one reason…but NOT the only one…and you can’t tell me you’ve NEVER known people who take a job based solely on salary.
Let’s stay on track here. We’re talking about your initial question, why would someone take a job that pays “half” of what they could make in a commercial position. If the disparity is what you say and there are jobs out there (you’re currently looking to fill positions) then the only reason they don’t move is one of CHOICE.
As I said…when you have a college degree working in your field and you can’t afford to move out of your parents house because you don’t make enough…I’d say there’s a problem.
Yeah, the problem is you have your priorities in the wrong place. If you CHOOSE to stay in a job that does not pay enough to be independent, then get a different job or quit whining. Heck, I’d love to build wooden widgets for a living but I’m smart enough to know what I WANT to do doesn’t pay enough to support MY needs.
As far as this discussion on degrees, we almost aways have to reverse the brain washing from higher education before they become useful. I’ll take a promising, clean slate any day over someone who has made a short career out of schooling before entering the “real” world.
Let me say that this is a midwestern university with an enrollment of 20,000 that was originally founded as a “teachers college” or “normal school”. The subject matter courses and the methods course for the particular discipline (mathematics, physics, chemistry, history, English, etc) are taught within the academic departments. These courses are not taught in the education college. There are some some professional courses that a student seeking a teachers license must take in the education college.
Before I moved to the computer science department, I taught calculus, linear algebra, probablity theory, theoretical statistics and geometry. The students in these classes werre both those students seeking a teachers’ license and students who did not intend to be teachers.
The teaching major for high school teachers involves subject matter courses as well as professional education courses including student teaching in a public school. A student who is certified to teach pursues this teaching major curriculum.
The preparation of an elementary teacher is different. These students take courses in the education courses except for special mathematics content, English content and social science content in the respective departments.
If one does not have the certification, one isn’t usually allowed to teach in a public school, although special circumstances may dictate a probationary certification. For example, my son earned a masters degree from a seminary in children’s ministry. While waiting for a call from the appropriate church, he took a position as a 3rd grade teacher in a private school where certification is not required. This was to be an interim job six years ago. Well, he really liked teaching, so he took the required education courses and earned his state’s elementary teaching license. He is now eligible for a teaching position in a public school.
Let’s stay on track here. We’re talking about your initial question, why would someone take a job that pays “half” of what they could make in a commercial position. If the disparity is what you say and there are jobs out there (you’re currently looking to fill positions) then the only reason they don’t move is one of CHOICE.
Isn’t pay one of the criteria you use in making your choice??? Tell me are you willing to take a job at half your current salary??
When talking about a 10-20% difference in pay…other factors may be more important…but when there’s a 100% pay differential…it becomes more important. Especially when that pay may not even cover your living expenses.
I’ll take a promising, clean slate any day over someone who has made a short career out of schooling before entering the “real” world.
I’ve hired several college graduates that didn’t work out…but they’re a far safer bet then someone without a degree. And I’d prefer to hire someone with a proven work track record then a college graduate. At least with a degree from a decent college is an indication that this person probably has the ability to do the job. Highschool graduate…very difficult to tell. Plus there’s a learning curve. Even a very intelligent person with only a highschool diploma will need several years of training to gain the knowledge he/she missed from a college education. There’s just too much to learn.
According to those in business who give preference to those with college degrees, even those seemingly unrelated to the job they’re being asked to do, they say they do so for one reason. These people have shown a long term commitment to a goal and actually achieved it. That is as important to them as knowledge in the field. They feel these people have also shown their ability to be trained and educated. That’s the “leg up” and not experience.
In order to get the best people to work for you, and would hope we all view public employees as ours, you need to pay enough to compete with the private sector. If their job is to represent the public in protecting us from corporate malfeasance, we need to do it with good people.
These people have shown a long term commitment to a goal and actually achieved it. That is as important to them as knowledge in the field. They feel these people have also shown their ability to be trained and educated.
EXACTLY…You can’t get a degree from a good college by just paying attention in class. You have to study…read…labs…homework…All necessary to graduate. By doing so they’ve proven they have the intellect and drive to achieve. My first year of college right out of high-school was at MIT…then I found BEER and BLONDS…I wasn’t allowed to enroll in my second semester…Then Uncle Sam found me and I spent the next 2 years in the Army with 9 months in Nam…that was an eye-opener. Then I enrolled at Syracuse University and graduated in 3 years. The Army did a LOT for my self motivation. Although I still like beer…I figured out to enjoy it without excess amounts. My wife weened me off of blonds.
Here’s the reasoning I don’t quite get. It is said workers is the public sector deserve a better combined compensation package because they typically have an higher level of education, all well and good but how can a non public sector employee that has the same level of education (simply did not get the same cushy public sector job)feel OK about someone else recieving higher compensation based on education?
I get that and understand it completely. MA has a slew of the cushy public jobs…some of them are getting pay well over 200k/yr. There’s one case in MA…where the chief of police RETIRED (i.e. collecting retirement benefits)…AND IS STILL WORKING AT THE SAME JOB WHILE COLLECTING FULL PAY.
Yes we have to get rid of these types of jobs…we have control the waste.
But you’ll find that in most cases…the waste is at the higher levels…NOT at the teacher, or policeman or firemans level. The waste is above them…usually the appointed jobs for some political favor.
You can get a degree in Mathematics…or a degree in Math Teaching at many universities. I have a degree in Computer Science and I had to take more math classes for my CS degree then someone with a Math Teaching degree. The math teaching degree is designed to train the students how to teach Math…NOT necessarily how to be proficient in Math. A BS in Math and a BS in Math Teaching both require you to take 120 credit hours. But the Math Teaching degree you’re required to take 30 hours in Education. THUS…you end up taking fewer math classes.
My brother who teaches math…Got his degree in Mathematics…then worked for IBM for 30+ years…retired…went back to college for his Teaching Certificate. So he ended up getting a BS in Math (120 hours) and then his teaching certificate (30 hours). And many districts across the nation require you to get your Masters degree within 10 years of teaching (YOU PAY FOR IT). Most will get their Masters in Teaching. My brother received his in Mathematics.
And that’s another benefit in the private sector…Every large corporation I worked for (and even the smaller ones) would pay for any college courses you wanted to take that were job related. GE helped pay for my MS in Mathematics.
I’ve been all of your examples and I agree…I’ve worked both in the private, public and military sectors and have found that waste has often nothing to do with the inherent nature of each. It has mostly to do with the conduct of those in management. I can’t tell you how frugal we are in the day to day operations in the branch of service I was in, except to say, it would put some of we high maintenance long term vehicle owners to shame. The waste always seems to occur when profit motivation and $$$$$ got involved with management and contractors. BTW, it’s not wasteful to have the best systems or people if it saves yours or others lives. This may sometimes be a military or other public sector prerogative that’s hard to justify on the surface and is always a debatable issue.
“Yep, being taught English by a non English speaking teacher is just over the horizon. I kid you not !”
Philippino teachers have been in Baltimore City for several years since it is extrememly difficult to get the locals to teach there. Of course they speak English, since it is an official language of the Philippines. But they speak Filipino as well.
Unless you have been living under a rock you would also realize that Conservative Christians are under attack by none other than NPR.
They got busted. It is a shame they have been so biased it may put funding for Car talk under question and it should if they can not be fair.
The problem is that the Unions have been supporting the very liberals that are attacking the conservatives so I have no sympathy for them. Further… I worked in a union shop and was a union member for awhile. I found that they did nothing but take my union dues and did nothing to address any grievance I filed.
Unons were a good idea,and a much needed voice for workers.Unfortunately the unions went too far. As a result, jobs and goods are all done in China.
When it comes to Teachers, I find that most of them are trying to influence their students rather than teach them.The subject matter is the same material taught to them.
Basically the job amounts to dealing with undisciplined children.This is both the parents and teachers fault.
I went to school over seas where the students took classes in both English and Portuguese.History, geography,grammer were taught in both languages for both countries.
United States and Brasil.
Discipline consisted of swift punishment with a yard stick.When I came back to the States I was shocked at how simple American classes were.I immediately qualified for the National Honor Society. I was accepted to college my junior year.
College was a major shock. I remember getting a C on an English paper.I ask my T.A. why I got a C since their were no corrections on my paper. His response was “I didn’t like your subject matter”.
Thats when I realized college was a fermenting ground for liberal brainwashing. Pretty much the same thing we accused the Russian goverment doing to their youth, during the big “Red Scare”.
Sure I worked in a college dorm where I could not replace a light bulb, as it was a union job. But those days are gone, and busting union rights are the goal. Originally it was part of the budget repair bill by walker. We need this a part of the budget he said! All off the sudden it was not a budget item and passed without proper procedure. If you have 2 minutes of your life to see what democracy does not look like watch this!!
USA Today did a story on cheating (both by the teacher and students). One teacher claimed she did not realise it was cheating to leave the multiplication tables billboard up during the test. Another teacher developed a code to tell students their answer was to high,she simply said “toilet paper” as if the student should wipe some of the value of his answer away.
My city (Tucson) is involved in a big blow over high school classes that teach minorities that the white man is the source of all their troubles. Fast forward to my writing 102 class where the instructor was working on her masters degree and these type of classes was a major part of her dissertation. Until I started wring my papers with the slant she wanted, I had trouble, adopt her viewpoint I got my “A”.
College was a major shock. I remember getting a C on an English paper.I ask my T.A. why I got a C since their were no corrections on my paper. His response was “I didn’t like your subject matter”.
Well there are good colleges and bad colleges…Sorry I’ve NEVER heard of anything like that at any decent university in the country.
Thats when I realized college was a fermenting ground for liberal brainwashing.
That’s a direct quote from Glenn Beck…Well I know where you get your MIS-Information from.
I am very interested in first if any recalls really happen,second, if any recalls are successful. The success of recalls will give a very good idea on solidarity within the movement.A recall of Walker will speak louder than the 2010 election losses.
