Translations:
“many women have trouble properly shifting” = “I don’t know how to deal with your problem, but at least I’m a chauvinist”
“lugnuts have nothing to do with tires or wheels” = “I’m pretty ignorant about matters automotive, and I want to finish dealing with you as soon as possible”
Good update OP! If nothing else, that hubcap story brought a smile to my Friday. I’ve had a problem like that with dealership I’ve mentioned here before. It’s funny in retrospect now, but wasn’t so funny then. Those dealership guys, sometimes they’ll say anything, no matter how ridiculous, just to get you to go away. Yes, your hubcap bouncing away was almost certainly a result of the tire rotation. Good on you for not taking their misdirection and going directly back to the dealership. It sound like you’ve got the right folks working on the problem now. Best of luck.
Thank you gentlemen for your responses. I very much appreciate the helpful feedback and advice!
I didn’t have a chance to read your comments in time to contact Toyota customer service yet but will definitely do so first thing Monday (or this evening or tomorrow if possible) which is two days prior to the next appointment on Wednesday. Can you please clarify for me what a TAS is?
While not pleased about the torque converter issue per se, that isn’t what really has me irate. After all, Toyota has admitted the problem and has a fix for it available now in a timely manner. And the Camry has proven a far more reliable, trouble free car in its first year than its predecessors, the 2007 Impala and 1987 Olds Ciera.
What I am downright irate about is, as several of you have noted, the disdain and condescension with which I have been treated in both this instance and previously.
Going back to when I purchased the car, the dealer prep was sloppy. They left sticky stuff all over the interior from not properly removing the interior plastic coverings from the factory as well as trash from those items on the floorboards. Also, the drivers door was binding when opened and closed. They would not address those issues the afternoon I took delivery and I had to return the next day.
Upon my return the next day, the service advisor who happened to wait on me was Junior who treated me poorly last week. I had already removed the trash myself. Junior tried to tell me that the binding of the door was normal. When I insisted that the other three doors did not bind nor had any doors on the cars I test drove, he merely had a tech put a dab of lube on the hinge and insisted that was all it needed. As I had an appointment to get to I expressed my dissatisfaction but left.
Next morning I returned and made a point of speaking with a different advisor. I had carefully left the car parked outside and explained that I realized that the noise inside the service bay made it difficult to hear or feel the door binding. Basically, I played the oh so apologetic dumb blonde. This second advisor walked out, examined the door and within a few seconds knew what was wrong, got a socket wrench, and tightened one bolt on the hinge. The factory had failed to torque that one bolt properly snug. And he used some type of glue remover that took all the sticky stuff off without damaging the finish of the dashboard or interior door panels.
At six months I had no problems with the oil change and tire rotation as I dealt with the same advisor who had snugged the door bolt.
However, starting two months after I bought the car, I started getting weekly calls from Dingbat nagging me to make an appointment for the 5,000 mile tire rotation. She seems to be the appointment maker and telephone gate keeper to the service department. I kept explaining that I am a low mileage driver and would likely be coming in at six months since I was unlikely to hit 5,000 miles before then. I asked her to quit calling. She kept calling and started telling me at three months I was about to void the warranty if I didn’t do the 5,000 mile tire rotation. I got a bit stern and told her she wasn’t listening to me and needed to realize that I had been quite able to keep cars serviced on time for 40 years without being nagged. It took me calling the dealership’s general manager to get Dingbat off my back.
So when last week Junior totally brushed off my concerns about the transmission, didn’t have it fixed and told me to keep a log of transmission issue occurences until the next oil change, followed by the hubcap flying off a few days later, Dingbat taking my call and being a dismissive idiot, service advisor Polite Guy (not the same gentleman who properly took care of things three days after I bought the car) tried to run an offensive theory about the hubcap and refused to check that the lugnuts are properly torqued down, well, I am not a happy camper with that service department.
Oh yes, just as I was pulling into the service department when I drove there about the hubcap, my cell phone rang. I didn’t answer it as I was driving. I forgot to check for voice mail until today. Turns out it was Dingbat who had called a full 45 minutes after I had given her a 10 minute deadline. Her message? If I would call her back she would make an appointment for me to come in so they “can give me a new lugnut”. Personally, I think she has all the brains of a lugnut but don’t want to insult lugnuts as they, at least, serve a useful purpose.
Part of the purchase price of the car includes four “free” tire rotations and two oil changes. I still have two more tire rotations and one oil change to be used in the next 12 months. Frankly, I am not sure it is worth it to me to let them be the ones doing those. I can say that how I am treated this coming Wednesday, whether or not the transmission is properly fixed, and the condition of my car when I get it back will be the telling factor in whether I use their service department for any paid non-warranty work in the future, or even warranty work for that matter.
Both times I have had the oil changed / tires rotated the car had lots of scuff and grease marks left in it I had to clean myself. I realize that sometimes a mechanic will get some such inside a car. It happens. But any other place I have ever had a car serviced, whether a dealership or independent shop, when I politely point it out they immediately clean such grease and/or scuff marks for me before I leave.
So in light of all this, I am taking the advice several of you have given me and will call Toyota customer service so they will be following the performance or lack thereof by the dealership’s service department. I shall keep my demeanor courteous and deal with this as a professional business transaction. However, I will not tolerate being treated with any further disdain. I may know little about cars but I damned well know when I am being treated with less than respect.
By the way @circuitsmith, your translations are soooo spot on and have given me the good laugh I need to keep all this in reasonable perspective.
Thank you each and every one of you. I have been hanging out here for many years now. I realize that as a woman and having no mechanical knowledge to add to the conversation that I am rather intruding on the “regulars club”, so to speak. I try not to overstep proprieties or stick my oar in the conversations too often. But I do have to say that as a group, you all are one of the nicest and most interesting online groups I have ever interacted with and take it as quite a compliment and privilege that you all generously make me a welcome regular participant despite my being a “mechanical outsider”.
Happy weekend folks. I shall update when I know more.
Marnet
…still reading, still learning…
TAS is Toyotas technical assistance for the technicians. If your car shudders after the reflash was performed the torque converter should be replaced and additional magnets will be added inside the transmission pan. Your concern of the car not going into gear is a separate issue, TAS may have seen this issue before and might be able to help the techs with a solution.
OP, I agree the customer treatment you describe is on the shabby side. Still, don’t forget the dealership has cars coming in all the time from various customers, and those customers have appointments too, so the shop might not be able to address even something minor at the time you make the complaint. They have to get the other cars out first, because those cars came in before you, or for other reasons. As long as they are willing to schedule a time for you to bring it back to address the complaint, that’s about the best you can expect from any shop.
It is sad that people working at automotive outfits don’t know or care to know about cars. The hubcap part is sad. The female shifting should get the guy fired.
I have had two new cars and my fair share of getting things covered under warranty. My stick shift car had clutch bearing noise on cold days, I was told it would get better after driving 10K miles. I was pretty sure after 10K miles I would be told I don’t know how to shift manuals.
My Honda was making some noise but the dealer could never reproduce it. So once I drove with the tech in the car and told him which noise I am talking about. Two days later I got the car back with the work order saying the same; they could not reproduce the noise. Now the service writer was tired of me so even though I had an appointment, he made me wait there for an hour before doing the paperwork for my car to be dropped off. At the meantime, their last shuttle left. I finally had to get deep down on the noise myself (I thought by paying for a new car, I would skip getting greasy for a while), and the rear seats were loose from the factory. I told them in the next visit and just got a blank stare.
@GeorgeSanJose, I understand your point. My real complaint here is the attitude with which I have been treated by Junior and Dingbat. In forty years of having cars serviced I have always kept in mind I am not the only customer and have a habit of being patient, flexible and fairly long suffering without getting offended. Like I’ve said, I am keeping this courteous and dealt with as a professional business transaction. I don’t wish to sour relations with the service department but am determined not to be “niced off” in the future. I’ve let it ride several times but not again if I can help it. I am not out to make an issue over past treatment, merely be aware of who I am dealing with and their individual mindsets.
Frankly, I have used here on the forum as a sounding board for venting my frustration along with seriously asking for mechanical advice and guidance with this particular situation, perhaps too much so.
@galant I have often wondered why service writers/advisors are not retired mechanics. It sure would make sense if they were. Yeah, perhaps they would cost more in salary than typical service writers but if you consider that with their knowledge they would do a much better job of translating customer descriptions of problems it would save the dealership time and money in the long run and result in better customer satisfaction which translates into repeat business.
Marnet, you do not like dealer, not happy with the seats (according to another thread ) and have problems with shifting. Life’s short why not bite the bullet and just trade for something else. We had one car for less than 5 months that we were not pleased with and I know we took a money bath but never regretted doing so.
@VOLVO V70 That’s a reasonable question.
Answer, the seat has become reasonably comfortable with time as most upholstered seats do and with lots of tweaking of the seat adjustments.
There has been only one instance of trouble shifting when the transmission failed to properly engage despite the console shifter being properly seated in the appropriate slot. In fact, the shifter on the Camry is far more comfortable and easy to use than any other console shifter in various other cars I considered. I confess I still miss having a column shifter but that option no longer exists in sedans in my price range so I found a car with a reasonably easy to use console shifter.
As to not liking the dealership, yep, but there is an easy answer to that. Get this particular situation resolved and switch to taking the car for service elsewhere. There are several other Toyota dealers in the metro area, albeit a much farther drive to access. But as long as the car remains reliable I should not need to go to any dealer very often. And I do have an independent shop I trust which I plan to revert to using for non-warranty maintenance.
And if it becomes necessary, I can trade this buggy in for something else although money is an issue for me so I will need considerable reason to fork out more money again. Frankly, dumping the Impala and buying the Camry was scary money to part with but made sense.
I will say that your observation gives me pause to consider how I am coming across to others regarding this situation and shall work on an attitude adjustment to feel less cranky and definitely sound less cranky. Thank you. I mean that sincerely.
Marnet, I fully agree with you that not only service writers but service managers should be someone who has spent X number of years in the mechanic trenches so to speak.
There are some that fit this description but they’re a tiny percentage of the sum total.
The local GMC dealer here has run want ads in the past for service writers and even a warranty clerk with the following criteria. “No mechanical experience necessary; must be computer literate”.
All fine and well for keyboard poking; not so fine when things are lost in translation.
That condescension and rudeness would bother me more than anything and my response to it would have been a lot cruder than yours.
Keep after them and maybe the moral support here helps anyway…
Did you ever get that Mojo Hand for the Impala? Might need it… 
I have often wondered why service writers/advisors are not retired mechanics. It sure would make sense if they were
Because in great part the skill sets needed for these jobs are mutually exclusive.
Mechanics fix cars, they don’t deal with people. They often do not have the temperament or inclination to deal with all the pencil pushing and hand holding required at the service desk. Who cares if this needs to be done by that time, or who’s paying the bill or how, or if the car broke down on the way home from Uncle Harry’s birthday party. If I’m the mechanic, just give me the broken car and I’ll fix it.
Service writers deal with people. They listen to your concerns, determine if/how they can help you, and find the right people in their organization to help get your car fixed as efficiently as possible. A good service writer will have some background in auto mechanics, but I can almost guarantee you that a good mechanic will be better off as a mechanic and a good service writer will be better off in the office.
@ok4450 LOL Nah, no mojo. But I do have the car trash basket that fits over the floor board hump and has been in all my cars and before that for some years in the 1956 Olds my folks had. That little trash basket is almost as old as I am. Guess that’s my car mojo.
As to a cruder response…well, that’s more iffy a prospect for females. If we wish to be treated like ladies we have to be careful to behave as such. Not that I wouldn’t like now and again to cut loose and just give someone a piece of my mind…but then I don’t have that much mind to spare. {
I wish I still had the little trash can that fits over the hump that was in the family station wagon when I was a kid. I can picture it so perfectly because there were four kids and one of us had to sit up front with nowhere to put our feet. My parents never put trash in it, but it held sunglasses and the little annual logbook in which were recorded gas purchases with odometer readings and all the maintenance and repairs. I suspect the trash can was thrown away in the eighties when the station wagon became a minivan and there was nowhere to put it. You’re so lucky to still have yours.
And you are one of the nicest people to post here, Marnet. I always enjoy your sense of humor and good common sense. I’m sorry this dealership is treating you so badly. You deserve better.
I agree with asemaster that being a mechanic does not necessarily mean they can be a great service writer or service manager. Many can’t.
However, some can and I’ve worked with a few. The best service manager I’ve ever worked for in my life spent a lot of years as a mechanic.
This served him very well as he knew the technical intracies of getting a warranty claim approved, understanding how a problem surfaced or a repair was done, and so on.
His polar opposite was another service manager with zero experience who, in between popping Valiums like M & Ms and the random shot of Crown Royal, thought the best way to deal with customers was psychology no matter the problem. Yes, the mechanically clueless SM had a very mellow approach to customer relations and when the customer demanded a simple answer to a simple mechanical question, or a volatile customer, I was the one called up front to sort it out.
Same goes for when a warranty claim hit a snag; call me to sort it out.
The SM gets paid for this; not me.
Same goes for the local Chrysler dealer whose wife is the SM. It was stated in the paper that “she knows nothing about cars but knows how to work people”. Is that what someone wants or needs; to be manipulated by a person who knows zilch about the problem? Translation: BS them along.
Going by what is often posted on this board I’d say a somewhat cruder and less articulate approach by a former mechanic may be a better option than some of the unadulterated crap that some service writers and managers lay on the customers while attempting to survive the moment while trying to avoid looking clueless or foolish.
I don’t know that time in the trenches needs to be a requirement, but a simple knowledge test should be.
I hired people for many years, including engineers and numerous others. I always had a solid image of what I wanted them to be able to accomplish, and I’d have a “test” for them when they came in. I’d always have HR tell them to be prepared for a simple test. When I was hiring engineers, I’d have a simple problem along the lines of the job demands ready with everything they needed to solve it, including parts, drawings, specs, etc. . I didn’t care if they got the answer right, as that can be stressful and not everyone can perform complex tasks without time to think them through, but it gave me a really good idea of their approach. When I hired faculty, I’d interview them in a room with a whiteboard. They had to have the technical knowledge, but in the end I was hiring them to teach, and not everyone can. Like the engineers of my earlier career, they were advised ahead of time that I’d be asking this of them.
I had an engineer once come in for an interview. We talked for a while, then I invited him to the table and handed him the problem. H picked up a part in each hand, looked at eth drawings, looked at me, and said “I can’t do this”. We thanked one another, shook hands, and he went on his way.
Hiring faculty, I’ve seen brilliant PhDs in mathematics, science, whatever, that couldn’t teach worth a damn. I’ve seen others with lesser technical qualifications that headed straight for the whiteboard and explained complex subjects to me in a manner that I could understand… and my secretary, who I usually invited to join me in order to see if he/she could really communicate… came out having learned something.
Really good teachers have a gift. There are a lot of brilliant people that simply don’t have that gift. They can and do learn the basics, but the gift can’t be taught.
Service writers for repair departments should be given such a test.
I’ve worked with and for several software engineering managers who were NOT technical. Some companies (like ones in the Insurance industry)…believe that managers must have degrees in business. So ALL managers (even the ones managing engineer projects) needed to have degrees in business or an MBA. 99% of those projects I worked on were so poorly run and over budget…and in many cases didn’t meet the requirements. That’s the main reason I stopped consulting to the Insurance industry. That was over a decade ago.
Every manager in my company is technical. Could you imagine designing a car with the insurance companies model…wait…isn’t that GMs model??
Interesting responses. I like to say I am still reading, still learning and this is a prime example.
I will add that the service writer whom I consider the best I have ever dealt with is a woman who has exceptionally good listening skills. Over time I could tell she was also becoming more automotive knowledgable. She never blathered bs. Sometimes she would go for a check ride with customers to feel and hear the problem herself before writing up the work order. She provided such exceptional service on several occasions I wrote the management a letter of thanks detailing her good work. I also personally handed her a copy of that letter to keep in case she ever needed it for future job references purpose.