I concur with @keith … cutting the timing belt off seems more time consuming and problematic than just pulling it off the sprockets intact. Those belts are really tough and seem like would be difficult to cut. At least w/my Corolla and VW Rabbit timing belt replacement experience, both those belts could be pulled off without moving the sprockets much if at all. So I remain at a loss to explain why it was cut off. But that – while remaining a mystery – is neither here nor there I guess.
Re @irlandes comment above about replacing the water pump, absolutely correct. In fact I’ve never replaced the water pump just for the sake of changing the timing belt. The water pump in my Corolla remains original at 200K and several timing belt replacements. But I do think – and comments here from the pros seem to confirm – that many shops recommend to proactively replace the water pump along with the timing belt on many popular makes simply to save money on future repairs. Me, I’m willing to take the risk.
Cutting the belt is not that difficult and my reasoning was that the mechanic was short-cutting the job. By swapping the belt only in this manner there is no time involved with tensioners or setting the belt timing. The mechanic is essentially halving the amount of time he spends on the job and probably getting full book on it besides.
There’s also the issue of 15 year old grease in the tensioner bearings and 15 year old seals in the water pump.
As to checking a water pump, I do not know how that can be done definitively. It’s possible to check for an external leak or detect some noticeable impeller shaft slop at the time but that doesn’t mean anything in regards to the future. A pump that appears to be fine one week may be puking anti-freeze and/or rattling the next week. Just like a tensioner or idler bearing they can go downhill very quickly.
This thread has been quite an education. I’ve prepared a certified letter for the dealer saying I intend to file a complaint with Toyota and listing the reasons why.
Based on comments here and more research I’ve determined modern timing belts don’t stretch, and in any case this one is not stretched. And vehicles that have jumped time don’t restart, much less go over a mile with smooth running engine (after filling with gas, which cooled the crank sensor, my mechanic explained).
Only sticking point is that water pump, which they insist shows signs of leakage and my mechanic says not. Since they gave me bogus info about the timing belt I don’t believe them, but that may be what they’ll tell Toyota. Ironically, had they simply said the water pump is leaking and they should replace the timing belt in the process, I probably would never have questioned them. But their biggest emphasis was on the belt, in spite of the fact they noted all the other belts were in good shape (as was timing belt itself).
Modern timing belts do stretch a little, but not much. Earlier this year, I took a look at the timing belt in our Honda. The belt was 8 years old and it had indeed stretched a little, but it also had cracks around every tooth. See this link for pics.
It was not loose enough to jump time and of course it is no longer in the engine.
Toyota’s seem to have pretty good water pumps, but if one starts leaking, it is common practice to change the timing belt at the same time. In the long run, it saves the customer money. They should have asked you first though and they should have not fed you so much BS.
You seem to be intelligent enough to understand basic concepts if properly explained to you, and if they had shown you evidence of a leaking water pump before tearing down you engine, if there actually was any, then I think you would have approved the repairs and been satisfied.
Whether this dealer was right or not, they did not give you good service. I think you are doing the right thing here and maybe they will learn to treat their future customers better.
BTW, you might not change the water pump in a Toyota with every timing belt change, but with a Honda or a Mitsubushi, you better, especially the later Mitsubushi’s.
Well, just for the record, Toyota corp. says they are powerless to do anything. First, they don’t accept opinion from third-party mechanics and said I should get opinion from another Toyota dealer. But when pressed, they said it would still be up to the original dealer to actually do anything. This final word after certified letters and phone calls to both the original dealer and Toyota.
So if, like I, you choose a dealer in such a situation thinking you have more leverage than with an independent mechanic, think again. You really don’t.
I will file a complaint with the BBB. If that comes to naught, as I expect, I will assess poor ratings against the dealer where I can. And maybe against Toyota as a whole since they’re pretty well known for poor customer relations.
I’m not a complainer and seldom pursue such routes, but this was such an obvious rip-off I felt compelled to do something.
Passing the buck is pretty common with any car maker and I certainly don’t blame you for taking any action that you can.
The one remaining option would be to prepare some technical information from your mechanic, online, etc. and file a small claims suit against them. It’s possible anyway that they could offer a settlement before the court appearance or lose in court.
A lady on this forum some years ago suffered a failed Subaru manual transmission due to an assembly error on the part of the shop that had her car. Without going into the entire story, I sent her a tech explanation of what went wrong, a few pics of a Subaru transmission showing the apparent error, and forgot all about this with the passage of time.
Out of the blue a couple of years later she thanked me in an email, stated that she had taken them to small claims, and won the entire amount back based on the info provided. Go figure.
Your mechanic was right and the dealer was clearly wrong. That’s been my experience for the last 40 years. There are some good dealerships out there but the majority should not be in the vehicle repair business at all. They are really in the business of “selling” and little else. That’s why I always recommend a good independent mechanic over a dealer.
