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To ok4450 They all do it is Bull! Mitsubishi CEO's went to jail!

Do you have any idea how seldom a top business executive in Japan goes to jail for a business deal? The government of Japan put a hold on buying Mit. vehicals for their own use. Do you sell Mitsubishis?

What are you talking about? Where have I said that any auto maker CEOs have ever gone to jail; or any top execs?
As far as I know top execs have never gone to jail and if some from Mitsubishi have that’s news to me.

What I have said is that every car maker produces cars that have inherent problems to some degree.
I have said tha car makers fight tooth and nail to keep those problems from becoming mandated recalls.
I have made reference to a news story about police investigating some Toyota execs for conspiring to cover up a ball joint problem. I have made reference to Subaru covering up a problem with a steering rack in an attempt to avoid a Recall being mandated (and I’ve personally seen this problem being covered.)

Other than that I don’t know what you’re talking about and no, I don’t sell cars. No way on earth I’m a salesman of anything nor do I want the aggravation and pressure.

I’m sure that there are thousands of AMERICAN CEOs of banks, financial companies, and other types of companies (and their company officers and boards) which should be sent to jail for greed and larceny. It would be nice if they were charged, convicted, and jailed, wouldn’t it?

Not only will I stand up for ok4450’s comments, but I agree with him. Every manufacturer designs an occasional vehicle that turns out less than stellar. Even Toyota’s original forey into the U.S. market, which I believe was called the Corona or possibly the Crown (my memory fades) was plagued by poor quality.

And every manufacturer of every product of any kind will fight to keep a problem from becoming a mandated recall. TSBs are one common tool used to correct safety problems and prevent them from becoming a recall. Recalls are expensive and can tarnish the brand’s reputation.

So tell us, whst’s the deal with the Mitsu top executive? I haven’t read about that and I’m curious.

As far as I’m concerned there’s a number of top CEOs, execs, and Wall Street muckety-mucks who SHOULD be in prison right now along with about 3/4 of the people in Congress.

It ticks me off that the prioons are full of people who knocked off a quick shop for 50 bucks or sold a 100 bucks worth of drugs and yet people who embezzle or misappropriate millions, or billions, are allowed to skate.

Did a net search and some Mitsu execs (in Japan) were found guilty of covering up several car problems and making false reports to avoid Recalls, etc.

Heck, I’m not surprised at all. These guys just happened to be the ones getting caught and I’ve no idea about the disposition of the Toyota execs who apparently were doing the same thing on the ball joint problem. The latter is new enough that the legalities may not have had time to work out yet.

My feeling is that this goes on with all of them and it’s just like someone committing a capital crime. The idea is to commit it and attempt to hide the body so the evidence will be scant.

Agree; but there is a difference between recalling a vehicle that is less than perfect and deliberately falsifying test data and covering up dangerous flaws. Ford has falsified emissions test result in the past, deliberately produced dangerous cars (Pinto) to save a few dollars, and produced rust-prone Pintos on the West Coast, while those same models were rust treated in Eastern plants.

Mitsubishi has a history of knowingly putting flawed vehicles on the market and lying about those defects.

Other manufacturers, including GM have deliberately put very questionable designs out to cut costs.

The mark of corporate integrity is to voluntarily recall a design flaw once it is discovered.

This link says it all about how bad it has to be to get legal action in Japan. I worked for them 18 years and I can tell you that no one at the top goes out on their own to do anything. They follow the company line no matter what. These guys were doing what they were told to do not just a couple of roge execs.Sorry I said they went to jail! Guess that top execs don’t go to jail for anything any more.

Being greedy isn’t against the law.

At least they actually did something in Japan!
My opinion is that every single car maker does stuff like this. Behind the scenes there’s going to be a lot of SHHHhhhhhhhhh and CYA when problems develop.

A good example is Ford and the class action suit about the TFI ignition modules.
Ford denied, denied, and denied they were a problem but it came out eventually there was a memo from the engineers stating these things were going to be prone to heat failure. It didn’t matter; they put them into production anyway and after several deaths/injuries a suit was filed.
Heck, I even received a letter out of the blue one day advising me that I was entitled to reimbursement for any repairs to the modules on my Fords. There was no labor or towing involved but they did reimburse me for the parts I had purchased years earlier.

The Subaru exmaple I mentioned was just as bad and the only reason I knew about it was because I personally knew the Subaru parts rep from the regional office and he told me about it as he was doing it.
Some models were prone to going into a speed wobble at freeway speeds due to an incorrect pinion spring in the steering rack. Pretty scary stuff if you’re doing 75 MPH, everything is fine, and then you’re abruptly going all over the road in a heartbeat.
Car owners were told (not by letter but by phone) to bring their vehicles in for a modification but were not told what it was all about.

Only the parts rep from regional was allowed to perform this repair so a rack was set aside and these repairs were all done without paperwork. No dealer mechanic involvement, no warranty claim record, oblivious car owners, no paper trail, and no one the wiser.

Would you be surprised to know that the COO that Mitsubihi hired in Normal Illinois to run their Factory was a man Named Rich Gilligan that came from Ford. He came out of retirement from Ford to bring Mit. back. He had just quit runnning the most efficient Ford plant in the country. Our efficiency skyrocketed. I will not mention what went down as efficiency went up. A
$1900 fine for killing some one does not say much about “At least they did somethink about it in Japan” I know the total fine was more then $1900 but it was a rediculous punishment.

This is one of the craziest threads that I’ve seen here. I wish this site had the little pop-corn-eating smilie.

Doc, when I read “Ford” I felt certain the next word would be “Explorer”.

Pintos rotted easily out here on the east coast too.

The one I can
’t figure is my Vega. Basic differentials have been produced from the beginning of cars…farther back if you want to consider industrial machines. The differential is one of the most proven, most robust, an IMHO one of the most intelligent solutions ever developed to what’s really a complex problem. GM is the only one I know of tha managed to cut costs so much that even the basic differential came apart in normal use.

Yes, Ford has an ingrained habit of cutting cost, and estimating what the cost per life lost would be vs the savings from not correcting a poor design.The 1960-63 Ford Falcons had poor rust protection, but instead of mounting a good gas tank under the trunk floor, THE TOP OF THE GAS TANK WAS THE TRUNK FLOOR. The list of these shortcuts is endless, and often resulted in very dangerous cars (Pinto gas tanks right behind the flimsy back bumper).

GM’s approach was more to have a cost engineer sweat down the cost of a component through “value engineering” a euphemism for cheapening up. Your Vega rear end and lack of cylinder liners, and too small a radiator are typical examples.

Toyota and Honda, on the other hand refined the manufacturing processes to reduce the cost of well-designed components, which had a much better payoff and much lower warranty costs.

Ah yes! Statistical Process Control, Design for Manufacture, Lean principles, Supply chain Quality Engineering, they work SO much better than “value engineering”.

Been there, done that!

Yup, and no hint of an apology to OK for the OPs original outburst either.

we all end up paying for it in the end.now gm@ ford will get bailed out using us the taxpayers money.and the perks that are still receiving.just makes me angry

No, I’m not upset about the original post at all.
The fine was not levied against the Mitsu. execs for killing someone; it was for falsifying a report on a vehicle failure. I totally agree that a 1900 dollar fine is ridiculous since it’s pocket change for an exec but it’s far more than what’s been handed down against anyone in the U.S.

Look at the deal with the Ford TFI modules. Skim some of that and you’ll find about as blatant a disregard for the public as you could find anywhere.
(And I’ve been on the side of the road more than once due to these; until I wised up and started carrying a spare) At this point though, I do not own a TFI vehicle anymore.
http://www.autosafety.org/ford-tfi-module-national-class-settlement

As far as I know not one Ford exec was fined or anything else. It’s sure ludicrous of FOMOCO to state they “they do not know what safety is”. Those guys should be in public office instead.

This thread kind of reminded me of an article I read in a magaizne many years ago and it involves the Watergate scandal from the Richard Nixon era.

Long after Nixon left office and various dribbles of paperwork and White House tape recordings started coming out apparently Lee Iacocca (the Chrysler guy whom everybody loves?) is on some of those tapes during auto maker/White House meetings.

Back then airbags were being discussed, and while I don’t remember exactly how it was phrased since it’s been a lot of years, Iacocca (who some may remember touting airbags, etc. in his TV ads) was apparently complaining about putting them on vehicles to begin with. This was before people even knew what an airbag was (early 70s).
His point was that keeping the vehicle cost down outweighed any positive effect of airbags on the vehicle occupants.

How his tune changed a few years later.

The original argument for airbags was put forward by Ralph Nader and other safety experts based on the assumption that people would not buckle up and the air bag would “protect people from themselves”, at least in a frontal crash. That’s why the airbag is called a Supplementary Restraint System (SRS).

Lee Iacocca’s unsaid argument was that with seat and shoulder belt, you don’t really need air bags, and if you don’t buckle up you deserve to die. At that time, many states still did not have seatbelt laws, and the federal government wanted some “passive restraint system” which they could legislate into cars. Remembner the shortlived seat belt interlock which prevented you from stating the car unless all occupants, even your dog, or bag of groceries, were belted in??

When the airbags were legislated in, Iacocca, the good salesman that he is, of course, promoted them.