"Sure , the VOLT gets a government rebate. I’m sure that was because of “Government Motors” "
Wrong, ALL electric vehicles are eligible for the rebate.
The fact that the Volt gets the full $7,500 is sad though since some people may rarely buy gas and some may run the battery to low SOC and burn a lot of gas every day. The credit was really designed for the former. Many cars will get better avg MPG than a VOLT if most trips are 80+ miles.
Kind of like GM gets a tax credit for EVERY FlexFuel vehicle they build even though a given vehicle may NEVER see a drop of E85 in its lifetime.
If you have a true EV (ONLY an electric motor) heat will be from the battery via electric resistance heaters. The Leaf can ‘pre-heat’ the cabin while it is plugged in so you at least start warm and with a full battery.
My personal view:
Makers of EVs should have a ‘cold weather package’ which includes a propane heater. It could use small refillable bottles. You should be able to choose to use the electric heaters if you know you won’t limit your driving range too much for your trip ‘today’ or the propane heater if using the electric heaters would put you to close to the ‘edge’.
It’s an EV with back-up power. EV stands for Electric Vehicle. The Volt operates on electricity. I could never use a regular battery only EV where I live. There isn’t enough range. I need back-up power and I think it’s a good idea.
The heat and defrost is what sucks. Using little propane bottles is lame. I’d go through more propane than any gas or electricity I’d be saving.
These little hybrids and EVs have a long way to go before I give up my conventional car.
Yeah, we got screwed by this in '06. My wife got laid off at the end of the year, got 6 months severance so made 1.5X regular salary in 1 year. Plug in some capital gains and we got hit with AMT. Instead of a $3,600 credit on the '06 Prius, it became $600. Never mind that her income the next year was ZERO.
"It’s an EV with back-up power. EV stands for Electric Vehicle. "
True, but if you push it over 70 MPH or push it hard, the electric motor is bypassed, it is ICE to the transmission to the wheels. It might push electricity from the battery to the electric motor to the transmission as well. It is a hybrid with a big plug-in capable battery.
"I could never use a regular battery only EV where I live. There isn’t enough range. "
Then you should be looking at a Prius. Costs a lot less than a Volt, carries 5 and is mid-sized. Toyota is also coming out with a Prius ‘wagon’. From the pictures it looks to be a stretched Prius, still has the same (love it or hate it) shape.
"I need back-up power and I think it’s a good idea. "
I, too, think it is a good idea. Sadly GM failed with a vehicle that costs WAY too much and gets relatively lousy MPG on the ICE. I suppose we will have to wait until the cost of the batteries comes down enough that the cost is not a lot more than a ‘regular’ car.
It is my understanding that the volt gas engine will run regardless of the charging state. This is done in the same way abwhole house generator starts once a week. Generators have “memories” and must be run under load periodically along with keeping the gas engine lubricated. The computer makes the decision not soley based upon charging needs.
So, up to 1000 miles per fuel tank seems like a reasonable sales ploy, but technically true.
Here is the link, I wish it said more, like how the test was done and all caveats.This story made it’s way into the USA Today and it is not being challenged by anyone of substance.If you google “Volt mileage” you get more hits than the royal wedding.I am quite suprised on how much misunderstanding there is about how the Volt operates bruchela_2000 is by far the most knowledgeable. So many think the gas engines job is to charge the main battery,and it is true the Volt is a hard car to pin down on just what catagory it fits in. My main feeling is that it is overly complex with too many electric motors and why could it not be made so the gas engine charges the main battery,perhaps not as eficient as having the gas engine turn a generator(but a good sales claim could be made). I really wish I was 30 or so and at my peak as an auto mechanic as these are the days I waited for,and just barely missed them.As a group we should get out of the habit of blaiming all thing new in automobiles as a way to bump the CAFE ratings, it stiffels true, honest discussion,sort of like a conspiracy thing,those usually go no where.
I look back and what did I get to see,the transition from carbs to fuel injection was probably the high point,with 70’s and 80’s emission gear the low point. We were actually the last (well at least in my opinion) mechanics that actually saw (and performed) some engine and trans swaps that actualy made sense. I hope it is not a case of the grass always looking greener on the other side of the road. I did come into “my stride” so to speak when there was a tremendous anmount of AC work to do and that was very enjoyable.It is these hybrid,and alternative fuel cars that really have my interest now, but even after my spinal fusion I still can’t go back to the garage.
If you’re going to use the value argument, keep going to a Chevy Cruze that costs $7000 less than the Toyota Pious. With that kind of savings, you can afford to make up the difference in mileage and still save lots of money. Or you could even buy a used Hummer for %16000 and your gas costs would still take over 100000 miles to make the Toyota Pious cost justifiable.
The point is individual driving patterns dictate your vehicle costs no matter what you buy. Comfort and safety also are important to most drivers. Have you sat in the back seat of a Leaf? Perhaps you’ll think twice about the 5 seat designation waiting for your tow truck when the batteries give out and the Volt passes by which charges in significantly less time than the Leaf and can be charged on 110v household current if needed. What technology is the future? Who really knows? Not even Click and Clack. Right now the Volt is for high tech greenies just like the Toyota Pious, it’s just that Volt buyers have more money. Neither vehicle can be cost justified on vehicle travel costs. GM’s failure is getting people to understand that you can go 1000 if not 10000 miles without any gas if you drive only 40 miles between charges.
If some Volt owners can get 1000 miles per tank, in a few years owners of similar cars might even get 2000 miles per tank. At what point is it advisable to put a stabilizer in the gasoline? It seems like those that get 1000 miles per tank could well be driving less than 200 miles per week. At that rate, a tank of gas lasts 5 weeks. Those that have shorter commutes might get upwards of 2 months from a tank of gas. If my wife had a Volt, she would probably get 2000 or more miles per tank since her commute is so short.
For short trips, the Volt uses electricity generated at a power plant ~50 miles away; for long trips, it uses electricity generated at a power plant 50" away. The principle is the same.
If you have a true EV (ONLY an electric motor) heat will be from the battery via electric resistance heaters.
In contrast to the low efficiencies associated with turning petroleum into motive force, turning petroleum into heat is VERY EFFICIENT. Efficiences of 90+% are acheived in real-world applications (CNG home heat).
What “electric heat” entails is:
Burning “stuff” (mostly coal) to make heat.
Using heat to boil water.
Using steam to spin a generator.
Making electricity from that motion.
Transmitting the e-'s over many miles.
Turning those e-'s into stored chemical enery in a battery.
Turning that chemical energy back into e-
Turning those e-'s into heat by passing them over a resistor.
There’s no way electric heat can even come close to the 90% range. That’s why any cold environ in the US uses CNG, oil heat, etc…electricity is way too wasteful a heat source, if one needs to heat regularly.
A Couple Of Years Ago I Was At The World’s Largest Outdoor Auto Show And Looked At A Little THINK! CITY (or some darn thing) EV.
I was surprised to see that it had a liquid cooling system (with radiator) for its one relatively large electric motor. It seems that could supply cabin heat and defrost.
As a retired electrical engineer, I am always very dubious of early claims.
My colleagues and I used to get copy from Sales for review and blue penciled the heck out of it for claims that were misleading, confusing, or just outright science fiction.
This lasted for a few years and then Sales stopped sending us copy and went right to press with it.
I suspect this is standard procedure in most industries by now.
Anyway, my prime question is:
“Has there been any owner feedback yet on how much their home electric bills have gone up?”
Twenty, thirty percent?
My power comes from a nuke just up the road, and even with a house full of curly bulbs, I still cringe when I get my bill.
Yet, a majority of people in the US are right wing.
That’s quite a claim. Can you prove it?
It’s not about freedom of speech, and you know it, irlandes.
Yes, most news sources have a left-wing bias. Working in the fourth estate requires a lot of sacrifice and dedication, and this level of sacrifice and dedication are found in those who are most altruistic. Can we all agree liberals are more altruistic than conservatives?
Certain professions, like teaching and news reporting, attract more liberals than conservatives, and as human beings, our biases always sneak through, even when we try to keep them in check. The difference between so-called Fox News, and other news agencies, like ABC News and NPR, is that Fox News makes no effort to be unbiased. Yes, if you look for it, you can find liberal bias at ABC News and NPR, but you don’t have to look for it to see it at Fox News. At Fox News it is blatant, and deliberate. At CBS and CNN, they try to be impartial, even if it is an unattainable goal.
I don’t think Faux News should be silenced. I just think they should not be allowed to call it news when it is clearly apparent they are making no attempt to be unbiased. I don’t expect perfection. I only expect the effort.