“Impala 61, are you telling me the VOLT doesn’t contribute to C.A.F.E. standards?”
No, I was quibbling about this phrase:
“It was created to raise C.A.F.E. standards”
The standards are set or raised by the govt, the fleets meet the standards.
“Consumers do want an alternative to petroleum powered vehicles.Especially people who live in cities or suburbia and only drive 10 miles to work or less.”
I want a flying carpet and a street-legal hovercraft. Where is my subsidy?
My point was that the Volt is expensive with the tax rebate, and would sell even fewer if it were not subsidized.
I keep asking how EVs heat the cabin and defrost the windows, a very real concern in my neck of the woods. Finally, this article discusses this problem and it’s not pretty.
“When the temperature dips below 26 degrees, the engine will turn on even during the electric portion of a trip to produce more heat.”
Do you know how many days here have temperatures below 26F ? Do you know how many days here never see 26F ?
I could see someday buying an EV, but it’s way too early in the pioneering stages, yet.
The standards are set or raised by the govt, the fleets meet the standards.
What I think was met, was that–by selling high-MPG cars like the Volt–there’ll be more “wiggle room” to sell high-profit gas guzzlers.
My point was that the Volt is expensive with the tax rebate, and would sell even fewer if it were not subsidized.
Also, don’t forget that the Volt gets ONGOING subsidies, in the form of not paying highway taxes on the energy it consumes (when in EV mode). P.S. The Volt is only “subsidized” for those who qualify for the credit. Given the socio-economic demographic of those who can afford to buy a high-priced car with unproven technology, many of these buyers might already be bumping up against the AMT–and thus ineligible.
The credit is applicable against AMT for 2011, not sure about 2010. This is a change so your info. is dated.
As to the highway taxes I will assume you mean federal gas tax, AFAIK this is not changing but in some states that also charge gas taxes there are pilot programs already going that charge electric/hybrid a per mile tax. A few different technologies are in use, I’m sure the feds are watching. Some states also tax via registration fees requiring mi. reporting annually or every 2 years.
I’ve been re-reading on this subject, and Congress might have enacted the legislation such that the credit counts towards AMT tax liability too, in contrast to the way these things usually work. If so, thanks for correcting my lapse.
However, I can’t seem to find a consensus on the subject, and I don’t feel qualified to make a definitive statement from reading the text of the law. I’d consult a tax advisor if you (a) want a Volt or Leaf and (b) suspect you’ll hit the AMT.
Also, as of this writing, EVs (largely) escape taxation for fuel/road use. Much has been said about changing this, but little has been done.
From http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206871,00.html
Treatment of Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit as a Personal Credit Allowed Against AMT (Section 1144): Starting in 2009, the new law allows the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit, including the tax credit for purchasing hybrid vehicles, to be applied against the Alternative Minimum Tax. Prior to the new law, the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit could not be used to offset the AMT. This means the credit could not be taken if a taxpayer owed AMT or was reduced for some taxpayers who did not owe AMT.
I agree, don’t take tax advice from these boards.
I think if enough EV’s/Hybrids get sold and if there are leaps in conventional (diesel/gas) mileage the feds and states will look at their falling revenues and get in high gear to “get theirs”, right now they are in “creeper”.
Oldschool, you never said anything about “1,000 MPG,” but you did say:
I do not know how much more this is in addition to what was expected but 1000 miles before fuel is required is not at all to shabby.
This statement ignores the fact that for this car, electricity is fuel, or more precisely, it is derived from a fuel source.
None of these cars went 1,000 miles without being plugged in, so none of them went “1000 miles before fuel [was] required.” You said what you are now denying you said, but you said it in a different way. It’s right there, at the top of the page, in black and yellow.
OK , the VOLT " CONTRIBUTES "to help fleet MPG . EPA hasn’t figured out how to do this yet, but I think you get my point.
Electric cars were invented over 100 years ago, but the price of gas determined what technology the car manufacturers went with.
As a car mechanic, I’m not very excited about electric vehicles, especially with the possibility I could get “ZAPPED” . Don’t think I’m a big fan of electric vehicles.
Electric vehicles will hopefully reduce our oil consumption and hopefully stabilize the price of gas {This will enable me to drive my 'vette more}
$36k might be alot of money to you and me for a vehicle, but that is chump change for the millions of millionaires in this country.Every other person in Malibu or Silicon Valley will buy an electric vehicle.
Nope they meant 1000. But, see what realbinky says for why. The people who bought Volts drive them short distances then plug them right back in. So they hardly ever get to the point where they burn gasoline, period.
Leaving aside people who are millionaires because they own an expensive house (and I think if the house isn’t paid off it shouldn’t count as an asset), you’re talking about 8.4 million people. People who are millionaires over and above their houses are precisely the people who don’t have to worry so much about money, the price of gas, or the tax credit.
“Electric cars were invented over 100 years ago, but the price of gas determined what technology the car manufacturers went with.”
More likely it was the fact that gas powered vehicles had a longer range, and could carry extra fuel fuel to extend that range. You could use a gas powered vehicle to bring gas to another gas powered vehicle, but you couldn’t use any sort of vehicle to bring electricity to an electric vehicle.
Impala 61, electric cars are here if we like it or not.Many people will be buying them for their own reasons.
Rich people can afford gas, but they will buy an electric vehicle to be “chic and stylish” to impress their friends.
Even if electric vehicles cost $60k, they will be sold. Ferrari, Lamborgini,Masarati,Porsche, BMW and Mercedes have no problem selling expensive vehicles.
Yes , I agree with you that technology for electic vehicles was not as advanced 100 years ago as it is today.
Virtually every newspaper in the world, most magazines; most TV network channels are far to the left. One, repeat, one network presents the right wing message, and the screams of the left are extreme. It must be destroyed. Yet, a majority of people in the US are right wing. Amazing. It is called freedom of expression, America at its finest.
We do see that the “worst of the worst” at Fox got sent packing because even people that agree with what gets spewed out at Fox had had enough of Glenn Beck. When people start contacting the advertisers that make the operation of your network possible, now that is America at it’s finest.
How do you know that the vehicle was plugged in at any time durning the test? I don’t see that fact stated in “black and yellow at the top of the page”. The Volt can travel on it’s gas engine mainly after the battery has been drawn down but it can be coupled to aid in propulsion.
How about you figuring out how to access the online version of the USA Today?
I am quickly comming to the conclusion that you do not know how the Volt operates( I can accept someone not knowing the 3 modes of hybrid operation possible, but to claim that the Volt needs to be plugged in everyday is simply not true). The car does not need to be plugged in if you just want to run on the gas engine(that is hooked to a generator most of time). Think of the Volt as a hybrid where the gas engine does not charge the main battery and the car can run just fine on its 83hp gas engine (but still mainly electricaly).By the words you type you are demonstrationg that you do not know what you are talking about,the words out of your own keyboard spew lies.The battery only mileage is 25-50 miles, I am quite sure this is news to you.If you go below 30% battery charge you are on the gas engine,bud.After the Battery goes below 30% (some say 35%) the gas engine powers a generator with the vast majority of the electricity from this generator being used to make the car move(via an electric motor), not charge the main battery(some articles do claim a small amount of main battery charging will take place). In extreme cases the gas engine can be coupled directly to aid in driving the car forward (or backwsrd if you are so inclined). For the Volt being as “green” as it is I am finding many sources claiming its gas engine requires preminum fuel.
Some claim that the Volt fits the description of 3 different types of hybrid and that it’s technology is not all that advanced, seems pretty complex to me.
Incorrect. The Volt will run (unless you floor it up a mountain or go over 70 MPH) on the batteries until they drop to a pre determined State of Charge. After that the gas engine will run to supply electricity to the electric motor. It will ONLY charge the battery if the SOC goes below the threshold (so you have some buffer, and only until it get to the minimum SOC) or if you put it in “I’m going to the mountains” mode in which case it will fully charge the battery though at a much greater cost than plugging in.
If your ‘demands’ are more than the battery can handle at a point in time (steep hills), it will run both the ICE for electricity and also get juice from the battery.
It is (sorry GM) not much different than a Prius but with an inefficient ICE. It only gets mid 30’s MPG when running on the gas engine, a Prius will be about 50 MPG. It just has a much bigger battery that can be charged from an outlet so you CAN drive quite a few miles on electric only.
IF you are going over 70, it won’t use the battery, the ICE is connected to the wheels through the transmission, not through the electric motor.
Actually, the Volt is a TERRIBLE second car. A Nissan Leaf with a range of ~100 miles per charge is a MUCH better ‘second car’ choice. It costs $8,000 less and with 2.5x the EV range of a Volt the uses you mentioned are WELL within its range. Plus, the Leaf seats 5, the Volt only seats 4 because the battery runs up the center of the car.
If someone routinely drives over the 100 miles day range of a Leaf, a Prius is a MUCH better choice than a Volt - first OR second car. It gets 50 (yeah for real) MPG and costs half the price of a Volt unless you get the $7,500 credit. Even then, the base Prius still costs $12,500 less. The most expensive Prius made costs less than a base Volt even AFTER the tax credit is subtracted. And the Volt requires premium gas, the Prius requires regular.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a Volt can go 1000 miles on a full tank of gas and a single charge unless it is downhill most of the way. It gets MAYBE 35 MPG on a 9 gallon tank and about 40 miles EV before the battery SOC drops to the point the gas engine is used (sub 70 MPH driving).
The MAX range in a Volt before both the tank and battery are ‘empty’ is about 350 miles and that IS the number GM gives.
CLEARLY, the “1000 miles before putting in gas” includes many overnight charges and not too many trips over ~40 miles. That IS the way GM expects the car will be driven.
Nothing changed. The gas engine will charge the battery under two conditions:
The battery SOC drops below the minimum threshold. It will only bring it back to that threshold and the car will run on the gas engine until the battery is charged via plug in. It does this because there may be times when the gas engine isn’t producing enough electricity to handle the driver’s “request for power” and it pulls electricity from the battery to supplement.
You put it in “I’m going to the mountains” mode. This will fully charge the battery IF the gas engine has enough extra output capacity given “current” need. Same reason as above. If you are going up the west side of the Rockies, you will need the ‘boost’ from the battery. This feature IS an adder from the 2007 time frame. I suspect they figured out mountain climbing with an expended battery was NOT a pleasant thing. Just make sure you ‘flip that switch’ early enough. I think GM said 25 miles before hitting the hill. Volt owners who hit the mountains will figure out where that point is for their personal driving needs.
The only other ways to charge the battery:
regenerative braking - the electric motor, not the brake pads, is used to slow the car. Good use of reclaimed energy but it won’t be adding a lot to the battery.