This NONSENSE about the lower end of the engine “going” after the repair is NONSENSE…and I dont want to see it written here anymore…Where on EARTH DO YOU GET THIS THEORY.
Fine lets say the dealer fixed the cyl head PROPERLY…this means they retapped and Helicoiled the plug…NO head removal…Nada. The Op gets charged around $150 to do it…Then for some reason the engines lower end goes for some stupid reason…SO WHAT…deal with that then… The lower end of the motor has NOTHING to do with this entire scenario
The dealer gouged and RIPPED OFF the customer…I wish they got a second opinion. The dealer saw an opportunity to make money and they went for it…THey LIED CHEATED AND STOLE…to do it… Thats how I see it. My God…where have all the good guys gone… I am PROUD to be an honest mechanic…people dont like what I tell them sometimes, but I work with them and EXPLAIN EVERYTHING TO THEM… After that they will LISTEN to me about what should be done…how much to spend on a particular car or repair…if its worth it…etc… Your customers can be your FRIENDS…and make you money the honest way…it might take a little longer to make the money, but a good name and reputation is PRICELESS…Most if not all of my customers are X-dealer serviced people It makes me feel good…But way too often I sit down and say…MY GOD…How could they look you in the eye and tell you what they told you about your car… I have heard some heartless stories… In my circle…whenever an car prob arises…either the person knows to call me…or tells their friends and family to consult them so they can talk to me…I save people THOUSANDS O DOLLARS… I make just as much money it just comes in over time…and sometimes big jobs are actually needed…so You make the right money on the right and proper repairs…
Honesty is the best policy and this OP saw NONE OF IT.
OK45 and mountainbike seem to be honest guys just by the way they confront this issue…My hat is off to you gents. I can tell you know your stuff and are honest people with a heart for peoples car repairs. This person was GOUGED and RIPPED OFF there is NO defending this Dealership…Toyota would want to know about this…as they built their reputation on Honestly built vehicles… They would not like to hear this.
The Dealer probably took one look at this sludged up engine and did not want to take any chance at all at being held responsible for any failure WITH THE LOWER END so they priced the job so that it included at minimum a used engine. Pretty smart thinking on the Dealers part.
I suppose you guys would be OK with price controls on every product out there. I see you all begging for the Nanny State to watch out for you.
I see no one wants to take on the issue of why the OP’s mechanics did not advise her she was ripped off.
Your comments were targeted to the wrong group of mechanics. Your excitement is causing your reading skills to drop. The OP states a group of mechanics told her to tell the shop that put the plugs in about the problem she is having with one of them “shooting out”. I ask why this same group of mechanics did not tell her she got robbed as her head could have been repaired on the car and she did not need an engine replacement?
The day I give up my, yours or someone elses right to free enterprise over a person who does not know when to say “let me check on this” (meaning they way the Dealer wants to repair the car) well that day has not yet and will not ever happen.
OK…I can accept that I am now Dumber for having gotten caught up in this mess…
However…If a group of mechanics looked at it…did they all work for the same place? PROBABLY… As she broke down and was towed to the dealer.
Why didnt anyone tell her to repair the plug hole in the head? Dont know…rampant dishonesty or fear of retribution by revealing the truth to the OP by the Dealer is my guess.
I dont want to post much more on this as I have already written far too much.
This is what SHOULD have happened. The OP breaks down…goes to the dealer…gets a RIDICULOUS quote and repair suggestion…
At that point they should have gotten a second opinion…its that simple.
I bet a local garage would have said Hey lady we can fix that spark plug hole for you…and called it a day. If another issue arose later down the road with the car or engine…then deal with it then at face value. I just hate to see people being obviously ripped off. I believe that this person DID have a plug shoot out…but why didnt anyone say we can fix that? The solution presented here is ridiculous today, yesterday, tomorrow, next week and next month… Its really that simple
The way I read the OP’s post the mechanics that did not advise her she got ripped off (but did advise her to report the issue to the shop that installed the plugs) were not related to the shop that replaced the engine. Do you at all entertain the possibility that the reason this group of mechanics did not tell her she was ripped off and that her head could have been repaired “on car” be that she was not and it could not?
Hi,
I am the tech manager at Autolite spark plugs. Both shops are a little shady, the first one for not properly installing the plug, the second one for selling you an engine when all you needed was a simple plug hole repair using a helicoil or timesert insert. Not sure which one I would be more unhappy with. The shop that replaced your engine should be ashamed of themselves and the first one should only be on the hook for the plug hole reapir 150-200$, Just my humble opinion as a mechanic and spark plug guy.
…No I didnt consider the fact that the OP was NOT ripped off because she WAS… And I did not consider the fact that the head could not have been repaired on the engine…BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE …AND the dealer never mentioned the FACT that 99.9% of stripped plug holes CAN BE repaired insitu… In over 20 Years I have not met one single stripped plug hole that could not have been repaired with little effort. I have seen and repaired so many of these that I lost count a very long time ago. I have not seen or read any evidence of the dealer even mentioning the “possible” repair of the plug hole… Their solution was a replacement of every single engine component to the point of needing a new engine for a common plug issue encountered and affordably repaired everyday at shops all over the country. This must have been one very very special stripping of a spark plug hole in the cylinder to warrant an ENTIRELY new or used engine to be introduced. My God then next thing to replace IF you gave up the possibility of fixing the hole is A NEW OR REBUILT CYLINDER HEAD…FAR FAR less expensive that a total engine swap.
I do not believe for one moment that this could not have been repaired by an honest mechanic… If it could not…then I cant actually imagine what instance would be the root cause for the new engine suggestion. I have even had to repair a repaired spark plug hole before…so the hole was rethreaded 2X with NO PROBLEM AT ALL…what in the world would have had to happen to this hole that a mechanic looked at it and said…WHOOOOO we cant fix THAT! You need a new engine lady… That scenario doesnt exist Im afraid to say and I have seen a VAST array of scenarios and none of them warranted engine replacement. This whole thing sickens me to tell you the truth. It really does.
You (and others) have constructed a rather complex chain of events in regards to who has to be in on the ripoff in someway. The Dealer must be in on it as he sets the prices (but is not worried about his image), the mechanic must be in on it as he did the work (with out protest, no image problem here). Also the mechanics that the OP went to for advice must be in on it and they failed twice, once not telling her she was ripped off with the used engine and second not telling her the head could be repaired. As I said way early in the thread I go for the simplest explaination as having the greatest chance to be the correct one. The sceneario you have constructed is not simple by any definitiom. Everyone very easily accepts that not one of the people mentioned (and who knows about people not mentioned) even voiced one hint of disapproval of what the OP was agreeing to do.
There didnt need to be any “Special Ripoff Scam” in progress at the Stealer…This event was a simple day to day NORMAL repair quote from a Dealer…no special event needed for the conspiracy to occur because there was no conspiracy…just a ridiculous quote and then an OP taking them up on it…
I dont trust ONE SINGLE PERSON at a dealership garage…perhaps thats why. Why are we to assume that any of the DEALERSHIP EMPLOYEES are going to speak up?.. I WOULD HAVE…but thats me…and I expect as much. What do I expect at a Dealership…EXACTLY THIS …and certainly NOTHING along the lines of a FRANK description of the problem and the lowest cost way out of said problem… Id never EVER expect this type of honestly and cost saving perspective from a Dealer.
WHAT I DO EXPECT is the HIGHEST POSSIBLE repair bill BAR NONE, that is what you get at the dealer. This is the one and only thing that i EXPECT from a dealer EVERY TIME. I also EXPECT to hear not one single word from the actual mechanics…as they are sequestered off from the customers ON PURPOSE.
Also when the mechanics are paid a FLAT RATE to repair a vehicle…instead of getting paid one hour the mechanic got paid for 12-18 hours…Which Dealership Mechanic was going to raise his hand and say UM…no instead of paying me up to 18 hours for this job (real worktime around 8 real hours) (Dont even get me started about the evils that take place at dealership garages with the FLAT RATE PAY SYSTEM the mechanics work under)…tell the OP I can fix it in under ONE HOUR Yeah instead of paying me 18hrs I want to be paid for ONE hour of work eventhough it may take me 2 hours to do the job properly…LOL…YOU WILL BE WAITING till hell itself froze over before that happened.
Most of my business is from people coming to me directly from the dealer with a HUGE laundry list of items to replace on their vehicles. The only explanation I can come up with whenever I see these itemized lists is that they are simply trying to get ALL possible money out of the OP as they possibly can.
Oh and while you are perusing your ENORMOUS repair bill…be sure to stop in at the showroom to see how much we will give you for your trade…Hey we can give you more for your trade than this bill here…why not make the right move and get into a newer model Ma’am? THEN we will fix your car quoted at 4500 to repair for 25 buck and 2 hours labor and resell it on the used lot for $7200 LOL…seen it…oh so many times…LOL
The bad part of this is that while some of the items are iffy at best it seems that the dealers are simply making reccomendations as to what the OP needs to repair a simple issue…By replacing the entire front suspension …we SURE DID fix that one worn (replaceable) bushing that you had on your car Ma’am. YES they sure did fix it…and also replaced TONS of stuff that wasnt needed. I SEE THIS CONSTANTLY…MOST IF NOT ALL OF MY BUSINESS is me looking at these lists and going thru it with the customers and showing them what is actually needed and what is not…just by going thru each and every part addressed in the Dealer list…AND I explain why for example we dont need to put a new lower control arm on the car due to the REPLACEABLE ball joint that went bad… Dealers make me sick…but in a way they make me money. Either way my customers get an honest repair…NO MORE…NO LESS. But they sure as HELL dont get this at the dealer. Dealers sway HEAVILY to the REPLACE MORE (i.e Everything associated with one small part) theory…each and every time. Do the dealers fix the issue? Sure they do… Would a new vehicle repair the issue? SURE IT WOULD…SO HEY WHY NOT…We are a dealership…right?
At any rate this post has been beaten TO DEATH… Boil it down and I firmly believe this person should have gotten a second opinon…they should have repaired the plug hole…if that was impossible (why I cant imagine)…put a head on it… DONE…
After all this discussion, I am surprised that no one has suggested that we are missing some information - specifically, why didn’t the dealer suggest the $50 fix. I suspect there is more to this part of the story than we are getting.
The second part that seems odd is that the vehicle has already been repaired using the most expensive option. Why choose the most expensive repair? Why wait until the deed is done to complain?
UGH…WHY do any of you even THINK…that the dealer would suggest the CHEAPEST REPAIR POSSIBLE?..IT DOESNT HAPPEN…THIS IS WHAT DEALERS DO… Replace an engine for a spark plug hole…
OH…your cigarette lighter doesnt work?..LETS replace the front bench seat as well as your entire lower dash…that should do it… THATS WHAT DEALERS DO…now Im done lol
Anyone who questions these type of things (that CapriRacer brings up) is subjected to some pretty disgusting, disparging, personal type attacks (from OK4450 in particular) and the webmasters here do not police 0K4450’s personal attacks but do take action when I point out that he is bullying and abusive towards me(and not by removing these attacks but by removing my post pointing them out). You are very correct that the entire story simply does not make sense. When I bring up the exact points that don’t make sense OK4450 launches into a personal attack tirad and no one (whether they like me or not) speaks up and says that this is not the way to have a discussion. No one has their car damaged by shop “A” then takes it to another shop, gets told they need an entire engine and simply says “well I guess you know best, go ahead, I have a little money under the mattress”. You are correct to point out that the OP only appears twice, and then never comes back to clear things up. All I have been saying all this time is that I really need to gets some eyes on this problem as things are just not adding up. In paticular, why would any shop and why would any customer behave like it has been related? The story about customers being little lost lambs that simply do what the Dealer says because they (the customer) is bewildered by the situation is just nonsense.
I myself have worked at many Dealers. The kind of behaviour that Honda Blackbird rants about simply did not occour. Not one of the Dealer owners I have ever worked for ever lost their business due to no customers. One of the Dealer owners here in my state has one of the largest programs for employing people with extreme disabilities, people that most of us won’t even take the time to say “hello” to . Dealer owners are not the monsters that Honda Blackbird makes them out to be and I am not the monster that 0K4450 makes me out to be. I do not fall in lock step with what he says simply because the Op’s story does not make sense, I do leave the door open by saying that this entire thing is something I would have to see for myself.
The only reasonable explanation I can come up with as to why this happened the way it did: Ignorance and incompetence on the part of the dealer tech who looked at the car and the same on the part of the service writer who sold the job to the customer. This is one key disadvantage of going to the dealer for repairs. The person you speak to is generally nothing more than a salesman who only receives training on how to sell flushes and fluid exchanges. I am of the opinion that a service writer should be, ideally, a former lead tech or at least a former mechanic rather than the used car salesman who won the most sales awards, so they moved him to the service counter to make money there. The repair orders should at least go through and be looked at by a lead tech to avoid this sort of thing. It may be good for the bottom line that day, but if word gets out about too much of this stuff, that service department will end up with a reputation that will cause no one to want to touch it with a ten foot pole.
Let’s be optimistic about our fellow man and assume this was purely the result of ignorance and incompetence rather than a blatant rip-off.
Many techs explore the possibility of this "sideways’ move (meaning moving from the shop to the service drive). There is a low rate of sucess attached to this move.
I could see that being a problem. The service department is there primarily to make money, and a lot of good techs are not good salesmen. I worked for a chain shop years ago, and myself and the other guys in the shop butted heads a lot with the district manager because of the way we wanted to fix things. If something was repairable, we wanted to repair it rather than replace the part and everything else near the part. Our methods were at least as effective as his methods, but did not make the shop nearly as much money. For example, I wanted to repair an exhaust system for a customer at a cost of $50, all labor. The district manager ended up selling the customer a new front pipe and catalytic converter instead, at a cost of $550. There was nothing wrong with that converter or pipe that a little cutting and welding couldn’t fix. His method made us a lot more money, but is not the honest thing to do, in my opinion, and bad news can travel fast. Few people want to go to a repair shop that does things like that.