Agree jt; poor engineering seldom shows up the first 90 days of ownership. So assembly defects and poor dealer preparation are the major causes of dissatisfaction. A case in point is Saturn in its early days. Owners sang the car’s and the dealer’s praises. The bad head gaskets and other poor design showed up long after the honeymon was over.
Also agree that the JD Power dependability survey is more meaningful The company was forced into this since many other organizations were covering this subject, and car makers, who pay for these surveys, wanted a “neutral” opinion on dependability.
At 81 I have owned many cars some from each of the big 3. I have also owned several German and British cars. No comparision in quality and operations the German and British cars are way ahead of the big 3. The major problem with the big is the UAW.
For example no cross training which makes for more jobs and higher costs.
Yeah, but its only ‘quality’ by the standards of the Big 3.
I’m an ex-pat living in Europe. There are a few big 3 cars here as they’ve been trying to get into the market but, to be brutally honest, their stuff stacks up really really badly against the local competition. The fit and finish of the US vehicles looks shoddy, the drive train is just embarrassingly crude, most of them handle appallingly and Europeans just laugh at the gas consumption.
I spend time in Korea as well and it’s the same there - the local stuff is better.
Now that denial is no longer an option maybe we’ll get our act together and stop wasting taxpayers money on propping up the dead but I’m not optimistic because it would involve accepting that we no longer make world-class vehicles and haven’t done so for years. Until we do that we’re not going to be able to deal with the basic problem that’s ruining the US automotive industry.
The major problem with the big is the UAW.
For example no cross training which makes for more jobs and higher costs.
Your information is about 20 years out of date. They’ve been cross training at the Big-3 plants for years.
You should read some up to date news and liturature. UAW has a lot to take blame for…but I believe that MANAGEMENT is about 90% to blame for the mess they’re in.
If you think that the quality problems a car manufacturer has is solely the line-workers fault then you haven’t clue the manufacturing process.
Anyway, regarding quality: GM isn’t worst, it’s among the best. GMC and Cadillac are in the top ten. And GM is number one in car sales both in the U.S. and in the world.
One good indicator of GM’s quality is the resale value…it’s PITIFUL. A 10yo GM vehicle is worth pretty much NOTHING. My wifes 96 Accord (DX) has more value then pretty much any 96yo GM product.
JD POWERS…are you KIDDING…They show NOTHING…absolutely NOTHING of how well a car is built…The Renault…the Plymouth Acclaim were rated as JD Powers BEST cars to buy when they first came out…Both of those cars were total TRASH vehicles…Some of the WORSE maintenance records EVER. JD Powers surveys are WORTHLESS.
The longer answer is, their quality has been improving for years and just keeps getting better.
We’ll see…When you can show me the GM car that has the maintenance record of my wifes 96 Accord I’ll START believing…When we sold it at 230k miles I put a total of $4 into that car beyond normal maintenance. Last GM product I owned…I was well over $4k at under 100k miles.
European driving conditions are totally different from North American. Europeans drive a lot less; the average Frenchman only puts on 7000-8000 miles per year. Gas is very expenssive, and with the traffic congestion, a small, economical car that handles well gets preference.
Durability is usually not an issue; I get a Europen car magazine and although day to day reliability is important, no one seems to care how long the car will last. That’s one reason you don’t see any Fiats in the US. Most European cars handle very well and are economical in fuel use. That’s probably why Shamballa likes them.
However, in the US cars are actually worn out, and not exported to Africa when they get older, as many older European cars are.
Opel is putting on an additional shift in their European plants, probalby because of the Astra’s popularity. Opel is considered one of the “duller” brands by Euro drivers, although their quality is quite good. SEAT is the Spanish Version of Volkswagen, and has benefited from German engineering . Prior to that it copied Fiat design with the same inferior quality. Fiats have great brakes (Italians only stop at the last moment), handle well and don’t live very long.
It will be intersting to see how the Astra fares in the hands of US drivers, and climate extremes!