Even most new cars have at least one keyhole on the driver door. I had a more basic chip key made that I programmed the car to see and take this with me when I think the key will get wet. It has no keyless entry fob but will open the door and start the car.
I also have a plain key that will only open the door. I did this for only $1 and the store told me it probably wouldn’t start my car but I figured for $1 it was worth a try.
I don’t like the idea that you need the 12v battery to open the door on the Tesla. Those door handles seem unnecessarily motorized. I mean, theoretically, you would get stranded in a blizzard, and if the battery went dead, you can’t get into the car for shelter because the door handles need power to open up. Or if you left the car temporarily, you couldn’t close the doors fully to keep out the snow/cold because the door handles were in the closed position.
This is theoretical of course, but GM puts emergency information about what to do in a blizzard in their owners manuals.
Also this is a taste of what possibly may come in the future when these cars get old. If the electric batteries are so expensive to replace, I don’t think high school kids in 20 years will be buying older, used Teslas to drive because they can’t afford the battery replacement.
And I wonder if cheaper electric cars will be more affordable to replace the batteries of.
I hope manufacturers can make the battery tech much cheaper like they have with computers in the past few decades. The first Machintosh cost $6,510 in today’s money.
I do not remember the models, we have seen posts about other cars that have the same issue.
I was thinking of Teslas that have these door handles, though I was assuming, so I may be wrong. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0008/6058/6043/products/tesla-model-s-door-handles_600x600_crop_center.jpg?v=1589189153
Another concern is that the door handles make it harder for first responders to open car doors in an emergency. Though I wonder if breaking the window is common to do anyway. A Tesla driver died because a police officer couldn’t open their door. Tesla's unique door handles caused man's death in fiery crash, lawsuit says
I lock my Volvo’s car doors when I am driving in the city streets and sometimes the highway, but I read in the drivers manual that it will automatically unlock when the airbags have gone off for first responders. My old Buick would lock automatically while in drive, though it unlocked in park. I am not sure if that car would’ve unlocked automatically in an accident.
That’s Gm. You can program how you want it to lock. I just lock in drive and unlock in park. Don’t shut the key off first though and put it in park unless you know how to unlock the doors. I’ve had to start the car again to unlock the doors not being able to find the right button.
Most vehicles manufactured during the last 20 years have customizable automatic power door locks. My 2000 Dodge doesn’t have park or drive, the doors lock at 15 mph.
There has been no indicator as to when the marker date of the battery warranty commencing. That is critical, One might have a case also if…and particularly if a buyer’s first electric car …the vendors did not advise the buyer, prior to purchase agreement that within say 8 years you will likely have to rplace the battery/ies, presently costing $XX000’s of dollars…'do you understand that. It is in the contract…you will be up for at least that amount. Your battery warranty begins when…"
Twin Turbo has some logic which goes astray, possibly as the originator of the question seem not to have been very explanatory. TT says**‘The repair will cost $26k and he is unwilling to agree to that. It’s not that Tesla locked him out, he just can’t get in because the electronics are not powered. It even mentions people telling him to get inside by disassembling the front end but he isn’t up for that either.’**
I tend to agree with Xuandie 129
There’s no suggestion Tesla or some mechanic did the work and then Watkin refused to pay. If the repairer did not quote repair price to owner and the owner did not agree in writing for such a huge sum several things follow:
“Take your car away”…that doesn’t need driving. There are tow systems suited to unenterable’ cars.
Negotiate price reduction to an agreeable sum.
Offer an alternative battery source and explain any effect on warranty and insurance.
Here I must say that if Watkin has been using that crowd or any to service an electric vehicle they should be checking battery condition and passage of time curve on every occasion…I agree 100%…and keeping notes of it…copy to owner… This is an electric car with a massively expensive battery. The mechanic if properly qualified should ‘first up’ check battery voltage and charging rate and voltage. This is the power source of everyting including braking (which is so-misspelled as ‘breaking’ in American forums.)If nothing else it would be courtesy and done at no cost, To check the voltage and current and load tst the battery should be free or under $30.00. The client can then be given written advice.
If the client (Watkin) brought the car in with any door unlocked and refused to have the battery replaced then that door should be left unlocked and the car available to be taken away by the client. Not wanting to pay a repair before the repair is done or rarely used parts bought specifically for that vehicle does not give 'right ’ to on whim hold the car, nor charge ‘storage fees’ .It is likely at least 25% of the charge will be profit. That is why they will be standing over Watkin…to force his hand. I would walk away and commence legal action against the Garage and its responsible party,
“The issue I have is this is nothing new. He claims there is a defect that has been causing damage to the battery over time and now, outside the warranty period, it has failed. He says they should have been proactively checking the battery during the warranty period, at scheduled maintenance intervals”
Yes, they should, if they are worth even a cracker. Holding a car let’s say worth $40,000 because a cleint refuses to have $25000 of work done is excessive and without foundation. The customer should have access to the car facilitated…which obviously the repairer can do…and allowed to tow it away.
It would be wise if such is available in one’s country to insure one’s car and take a ‘road service’ also which includes legal representation. The Calcium batteries are another example of ‘shite’ but one cannot, in my country, find an ‘old type’ lead acid replacement. I have found Delkor to be a con…but finding a better brand…?..I want to get right away from Calcium impregnated plates. Lithium batteries are very expensive owing to small demand and the costs of mining Lithium. My Lithium mining shares just dropped another 10%…that’s 30% so far…but the dirctors will be ‘in clover’. None of that aids our Tesla Victim though. I’m an electrical engineer…I would go near a battery powered vehicle and I’d be circumspect of anything with Musks fingerprints on the design, investment and/or marketing.
In closing the electric car should have access to a key operated charging port which can enable ‘dead mode’ charging. It should aso have coded access to the car, which does not enable starting the vehicle. I agree also with Xuandy 129 in this observation …after all in Europe lighting arrangements and tyre changes are about safety.
Those door handles seem unnecessarily motorized. I mean, theoretically, you would get stranded in a blizzard, and if the battery went dead, you can’t get into the car for shelter because the door handles need power to open up. Or if you left the car temporarily, you couldn’t close the doors fully to keep out the snow/cold because the door handles were in the closed position.
Voila
Onstar’s headquarters is in Detroit, and using dots in phone numbers is becoming increasingly common over here.
It is also the biggest warranty item Tesla has. They fail ALL the time.
The 12v battery is there in a Tesla and other EVs and hybrids because the infrastructure inside cars is based on a 12v supply. To redesign ALL the systems to operate on a different voltage would greatly increase the cost of the car.
25 years or so ago, there was a big push to go to 36v batteries (42 volt systems). It was a multi-manufacturer committee so all were represented. It failed in a large part because of lighting systems. Old style filament bulbs get far too fine at 36 volts to take the pounding of a car. LEDs would solve that but they were too expensive at the time.
I feel the same way. There should be a mechanical lock on these if the electronics fail. Of course they may see this as a security feature since older mechanical locks are more subject to being picked. I see lots of points brought up about safety if first responders cannot easily enter in the case of a fire or whatever.
My parents have newer cars and sometimes they are nice and sometimes they drive me nuts. I was attempting to back one of them into a tight space at a parking garage. I opened the door so I could see and get one part of the car just inches from a concrete pillar. The brakes applied and the transmission went into park automatically. There is no mechanical linkage so you couldn’t take the car out of park without power. I am sure there is an override for this if the car needed to be towed but I am not familiar with how that works. Also, I suspect there may be a one time override for the stopping when opening a door as well kinda like traction control can be turned off. Again, it was a one time thing for me but if I drove it daily, I would certainly investigate this. Most of these overrides reset after a period of time or after the car is turned off and restarted the next time around.
+1
I have to admit that I had never seen that phenomenon prior to 2005 (from an American-born woman, at work), but I am seeing it a bit more often nowadays.
I recall reading an article in either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics, circa the early '70s, stating that all cars would have 36/42 volt systems w/in just a few years. Apparently some folks were thinking about this more than 40 years ago–even though it never came to pass.
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I remember seeing some push even just a few years back to increase voltages although I don’t remember how high they wanted to go. Part of the idea was to run just a belt to the alternator and then run everything else off electric, making the engine accessories less parasitic. Water pumps would only turn as fast as needed. I guess you could eliminate the mechanical thermostat and just use an electronic one at that point as well. No more water pump pushing against a closed thermostat, etc. The AC compressor would run off an electric motor, not be driven directly by the engine. There would be no need for a clutch as well. Such a system could be more reliable if designed right and hopefully not hackable. I can see someone hacking a car to make the water pump not turn but the engine temp sensor think that everything is OK. That is basically what Stuxnet did the the Iranian centrifuges. They were spinning at an INSANE rate that caused them to self-destruct but all indications to the operators said that everything was OK.
I never thought about the lighting issue and filaments. They could have knocked the voltage down but I guess 13.8/12V works just fine so why mess with it? As mentioned, LEDs can be designed for many voltages a lot easier so that solves that problem. LEDs have become amazingly cheap these days and allow for thinner wiring as well as less power consumption and longer life.
That’s part of the advantage of hybrids, most everything’s electrically driven. So the problem’s already been solved, really.
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The battery warranty (as well as any other warrantable part in the car) is clearly spelled out in the documentation given to the purchaser.
Oh come on. Do they say today- you know, this engine is only warranted for X miles/years and will be expensive to replace if it fails outside the warranty period. No they don’t nor should they need to make such pre-purchase declarations for the battery.
I would be surprised beyond the pale if there is someone manufacturing an alternative pack and even more surprised if Tesla would allow it to be installed. This isn’t a simple 12V service/starting battery. It is highly integrated into the car in both mechanical and electrical sense.
I’m sure the car’s computers already have a histogram on battery performance. What is being discussed is looking for situations outside of the performance of the battery eventually impacting battery performance. The specifics of which in this case was a water leak causing damage over time. No manufacturer of anything is going to be disassembling your appliance or car looking for potential failures.
Who said they are restricting access to it? He could tow it away. He was complaining that they wouldn’t open it for him to access his papers. In this case it appears that would require work on their part. It doesn’t paint the whole picture but if they refused to open it leads one to believe they were dealing with a belligerent customer demanding free help.
It’s a bummer it failed. But it failed outside the warranty period. That period has to end sometime. Now it’s a goodwill situation unless/until you can get some legal relief. Personally, I think only a fool does not go into a purchase like this without understanding the financial scenario. I haven’t bought an EV for this very reason yet. The battery repairs can cost more than an engine…
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I’m not going to argue about this matter other than to reply this one time:
A battery could be in a car or on indent (say) 12 months or longer before the car purchased. I note you have not purchased an EV but have apparently read a warranty on the battery. The warranty period TESLA (‘eg’) might argue is from the date of the purchase or some other practicality, for example (abain ‘eg’) when brought up on charge at purchase. One may not get,say 8 actual years use. Thus the warranty should specify when the battery warranty starts for the vehicle being purchased. Batteries deteriorate whilst just standing around and commonly have small drains whilst standing around… When a battery cost is massive contracts should be emphasised by being clear and obvious and precise in the ‘warranty’ commencement date and finish.
When battery replacement cost is massive the purchaser should be well advised at purchase. Car depreciation Vs battery life may see the car after 8 years be not worth fixing but that’s not the issue here, though it is a contractual issue and one of clear and honest description to all purchasers, You may not agree with me however I am not moved by the argument that keeping a massive and ievitable cost secret is honest or honourable and may be challenged.
It is on the cards that alternative replacements may become available. Once a car is purchased it is no longer Tesla’s property. There may be a maintenance agreement or a warranty but it’s not Tesla’s car unless on lease from the organisation. Were there a replacement battery system the worst Tesla can do is to refuse to honour a warranty or to have a function which stops the car being usable unless its own product is used. That would be a challengeable position.
I may have missed the point that this car in question was a victim of the ‘water leak’. That said, if the vehicle design introduces a point of failure such as condensation deteriorating a battery then it would be a challengeable position. Essentially your argument seems to be that notwithstanding the ‘built-in’ reduction of battery life through a completely ‘non electrical’ contribution that the manufacturer has no responsibilty. On the little I have read in the forum the ‘water’ issue is not confined to one vehicle but I also have not read it was the actual situation here. Whether it is or not it is a built-in fault.
The system may have a battery use record built-in however that may not be a practical test of the cause of battery failure at the time of failure,I stand by my comment that external testing would be proper service particularly emphatic if one has always taken the car to a particular organisation for maintenance however theargument stands whoever does the service. All batteries give most accurate condition under a series of pertinent load-test conditions. I can’t see the relevance of this comment “No manufacturer of anything is going to be disassembling your appliance or car looking for potential failures” I have not suggested that. It is however not accurate but normally is done during design or for example in car-racing is an essential due-diligence, I’m not returning to this discussion but I don’t see its relevance to my propositions.
You say"Who said they are restricting access to it? He could tow it away. He was complaining that they wouldn’t open it for him to access his papers. In this case it appears that would require work on their part. It doesn’t paint the whole picture but if they refused to open it leads one to believe they were dealing with a belligerent customer demanding free help." I think I made very clear the position of rights and obligations. I don’t know tesla cars and that I do understand electric motors and regenerative braking etc. is irrelevant. The cars must have simple access to opening the car when locked through battery faiure. It was sensibly pointed out by another commenter that it would be a most unsafe quality of the car if not readily accessible to opening whether from inside or outside. I’d call it, if not a simple entry, ‘potentially-criminal-negligence in design’.Argument on ‘potential theft protection’ would not hold up unless (disclaimer escape artists) the contract clearly stated “you may die in your car if the battery goes flat and neither you not a person outside can easily access you”…even then it would be an unenforceable agreement. Ordinary cars do not have that problem and smashing a window may in an emergency allow access to locks. In the case of this person’s car I made my argument quite clear and relevant to several conditions. Weere the position that they wold not let him have his papers whether or not there is any money owing would be challengeable. I don’t have a problem understanding the difference between ownership and possession. Your assumption that the owner is beligerent, thus leadng to some reactivity seems, even so, rational with the shock of a $26000 quot Yes, the owner might be seemingly unreasoning, might even be ‘trying it on’ for all I know but it sounds to me as though he owes the mechanic nothing and the mechanic is a low-life standover type,…but then is there some other ‘input’ I don’t know. I do know however that this situation sounds unreasonable and that on it alone I would never buy a Tesla…or any similar problem. I believe many thousands of Teslas are subject of court action for quite a few issues. The car sounds to me as big a risk as Musk himself, who farms-out design and takes the kudos and the profits. Designing an electric vehicle is not a major drama…avoiding the catastophic possibilities is, though, a big issue. When a design draftsman long before I was an engineer I recall my relentless mind work that went into looking into potential failure or catastrophic events from electrical designs, my own and others, or from a component failure or fault. To not be able to simply-access a car with a dud battery sounds poor and a-moral more so than unethical design, Ethics are a creature of fashion, profit and advantage. Morality goes more to virtuousness.
“Who said they are restricting access to it? He could tow it away.” I covered all that. I stand by what I said. “Personally, I think only a fool does not go into a purchase like this without understanding the financial scenario.”. Really?..when I said the scenario should be clarified in the purchase agreement you disagreed. Perhaps if you rethink what I actually wrote you may see it differently. That said I also am irked by say similar cost-cars which have built-in short term obsolescence , like BMW window regulators, cars using timing belts rather than chains…calcium batteries, Nissan and Mitsubishi engines…In one of the scenarios where people were chaged for an engine rebiuld when all needed was the pcv hoses cleared. Are people fools when buying cars, perhaps imagining the deal is honest and clear? It may be months or years before car reviews and recalls catch up with the design faults. I think fo example it was the E39 BMW automatics which a driver found automatically selecting reverse when stationary, sometimes reversing into another car at traffic lights…or BMW ‘VANOS’ recommended to be totally replaced at 70,000 max 100,000 kMs…My E46 330 is still fine at 230000,kMs. or Golfs who’s propensity to stall and use a long clutch ‘throw’ has seem people even killed when the car stalls during a manoever…Turbo FWD’s which are so sensitive to front end wear, not immediately apparent that torque steer can see them suddenly change sides of the road under rapid acceleration …there’ll be a raft of scenarios. . Electric cars have brought a new dimension into costs and failures. In closing, to introduce a personal foible I believe all cars should drive from the rear. I buy only cars that do that. That’s all I have to say so protestations well, like wild horses not drag me back into the issue. I find no fault in my initial comments. Voila
WOW, you wrote a book their. 
Tolstoy in the house!
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