Kevin-
You’re absolutely right that semis should pay LOTS more every year. It was my understanding that they do, throgh the fees you mentioned. If they don’t, they should, but that’s outside of the mile fee issue. It’s a truck road use issue, not a reason to start tracking all cars.
And there’s two points of equalization that are missed by taxing mileage.
1- The massive idlers who go nowhere much in big city traffic jams. Hundreds of vehicles in one small area just idling away hour after hour. ( not paying UP to their fair share, mileage wise )
2- rural america ( four corners reservation in direct experience ) people who MUST drive 60 miles one way just for groceries. ( paying too much than their fair share )
I have local customers who rack up 100k a year just with normal family functions.
No I dont want to start tracking individuals,but outside the excise tax and registration fees I do not know how they make the balance(I know they are required to buy a certain amount of fuel in each state) looks a graduated GVW fee would be fairer and easier and wouldnt be soaking the Diesel pickup or car owner-Kevin
Maybe a tax on tires based on tire weight and inflation pressure would make for a fair source of highway funds.
For those that think sticking tractor trailers with super high tax rates do not understand basic economics 101. The cost of Increasing taxes on tractor trailers simply gets passed down to the consumer by way of higher food prices. (If only that tax was itemized on the products final price would people understand) So that family struggling to make ends meet will have to pay higher prices for a bag of potatoes because of higher road tax on Tractor trailers. How fair is that?
for one am just really getting tired of the social engineering and graduated everything. Just keep it simple and quit trying to control behavior.
Punish those who aren’t you because they have something you don’t or can’t afford.
Here’s some info on how much trucks paid in 2007:
"Nationally, trucking firms contribute $12.1 billion of the total dollars going into the federal Highway Trust Fund, or about 30.6 percent of the total $39.5 billion in Trust Fund revenues.[30] In terms of revenues assigned to the Highway Account ($32.1 billion), as opposed to the mass transit account, the trucker contribution is equal to 37.7 percent of highway account revenues. These trucker taxes were in the form of diesel taxes (73.4 percent), retail taxes (15.3 percent) and use/tire taxes (11.3 percent). While these are the best numbers available, it should be noted that commercial truck gasoline taxes are excluded from the above figures, but that registration fees include some commercial pickup trucks. A somewhat better measure of the contribution of heavy trucks can be found in the data on national average federal taxes charged on a typical 5-axle, 80,000 pound GVW tractor-trailer combination truck. For a typical 80,000 pound GVW tractor-trailer combination truck the federal highway taxes average $8,959 per year.[31]
The trucking industry also makes major contributions to the revenues of state road funds. Across the 50 states, excluding gasoline taxes on light trucks, the trucking industry contributes $15 billion, with half of that in diesel taxes, and 36 percent in truck registration fees.[31] The figures exclude gasoline taxes on commercial trucks, but include registration fees on all commercial trucks including pickups. As with the federal taxes, a better measure of the contribution of heavy trucks can be found in the data on national average state taxes charged on a typical 5-axle, 80,000 pound GVW tractor-trailer combination truck. These taxes relate primarily to state diesel tax, registration fees and weight fees. On average, heavy trucks paid $4,930 each per year in state charges, including an average $1,672 in registration fees and $2,935 in fuel taxes.[33]
On average, a typical 80,000 pound GVW tractor-trailer truck pays $13,889 per year in truck highway taxes according to the above data. A hypothetical auto owner driving 20,000 miles per year at 25 mpg, and paying $100 in registration fees, ends up paying about $397 per year. So on average, looking at federal and state taxes, a tractor-trailer combination trucks pay about 35 times what a typical auto would pay based on national averages."
So at the end of the day the taxes the truck drivers pay simply get past down to the consumer, you just don’t see it, but the consumer foots the truck taxes
Texases,I suspect car owners pay a bit more then that,maybe not all in road fees (they have excise taxes on everything too) Trucks pound the heck out of the road,but of course some road and infra structure damage occurs regardless of GVW(most new bridges now are built to military spec)[I think that means they have to be capable of supporting the heaviest combat vehicle that would concieveably cross them] as for what stresses a road,try building a haul road on Terra Firma for dumptrucks and see how long it holds up.A light vehicle,with very little turning friction does very little damage to a roadway,a heavy vehicle will break down, even a good road surface in short order if the standards arent heavy enough.Roads in VA are among the best in the nation due to several factors and one of those is the strict weight limits on trucks(tarmac ) has its limits-Kevin
Sorry guys most of you are lookind at this all wrong. We take in all tax money we need to fix and run the country. The problem is we spend to much. Then there is the waste. We give away money, pay to much for off the shelf items and if gov department spends less than their budget they lose out in nexts year budget. It dont pay in gov to save. I worked for FEMA they paid $2500 for out dated computer pads, when you could buy a laptop for $500 that did more and was easier to use. This is where we let things get to by voteing for what this guy could take from him to give to you.
By the way if you read this discussion as I did you will see what we have become. We have been trained to look at it all wrong. IE Why are even talking about more taxes ? When we dont ask where the money is going? How is it spent? Why does it cost this much? These guys work for us. Its there job to see our money is spent wise. Its out of hand and in the end if we dont change things its not going to turn out well for anyone.
@oldbodyman the myth of the $500 hammer is grossly exaggerated, and also glosses over special requirements the government has for certain applications that require a stricter design and lower production output (since the public doesn’t need the extras and won’t pay for them) which drive up the price.
Or, in other words, a toilet on a B-52 is going to need to be designed such that it won’t break or come loose during combat, and must be lighter than a household toilet because it’s in an airplane, and therefore is going to cost more money than a household toilet.
While there is certainly waste in government spending, the idea that we need to cut taxes even more, despite the fact that our tax rate is abysmally low compared to the times of our greatest national prosperity, is foolish.
At any rate, regarding taxing based on mileage, if they can figure out how to do it without tracking my every movement, I’m OK with it. But taxes should not be an excuse for the government to spy on everywhere I go and everyone I see.
It may be time to roll road taxes into state income taxes. Bump them slightly, kill gas taxes, and the problem would be solved.
"kill gas taxes, and the problem would be solved. "
What problem is that? The users of the roads paying for them?
The idea for taxing fuel, tires, vehicles and mileage is to give the bill for building and maintaining roads to those who use the roads. If New Yorkers want fresh strawberries in January they will pay a higher price because they are shipped from Mexico. If the price is too high they can eat frozen berries or just do without. The people who work in a crowded city but live in the suburbs need to pay a greater share of road tax than the person whose home is a row house a few blocks from the job even if the commuter decides to drive a Volt.
Yes, and if we taxed everything on a per-individual-use basis, we wouldn’t have any national parks or medical research grants.
That guy living in the row house and walking to work is still benefiting from the roads being there. The food he buys at the grocery, the row house he lives in, the office he works in, the police who drive to protect him in 5 minutes or less, the firefighters who can get to his house to put it out in 5 minutes or less, the ambulance that can whisk him to the hospital in 5 minutes when he’s having a heart attack, the garbage truck that carries his trash away so that it does not pile up in his spare bedroom, all would not exist if it weren’t for a transportation network in which roads play a key part. Roads are a very big reason why US society exists, and he is a member of and benefits from that society. He needs to help keep them up too, even if he doesn’t personally drive on them.
But when the consumer pays the price for the strawberries, that includes the fuel and road taxes to support them. But if he plants a small garden in his yard a great deal of taxes and fees can be avoided. Or should we have a head tax and everyone pay his/her share of the cost of government regardless what they use or what they consume or earn? Sound fair?
But when the consumer pays the price for the strawberries, that includes the fuel and road taxes to support them.
So in other words, the consumer pays for the trucker’s use of the road, and the trucker gets off scot-free even though his entire income is based on having roads. How’s that fair?
Or should we have a head tax and everyone pay his/her share of the cost of government regardless what they use or what they consume or earn?
Provided you put it on a sliding scale based on net worth (note I said net worth and not income - if a multi-billionaire playboy doesn’t work, that doesn’t mean he should get out of paying taxes) then I’d be fine with that, yes.
If you want to be a member of society, and you benefit from what society makes possible, you should support that society.
But if the tax is written so that the millionaire playboy pays a tax on his wealth does the $100 million income of an investment banker go untaxed because he throws away his money gambling?
So a WEALTH TAX will fairly tax folk for use of the ROADS?
And the trucker pays INCOME TAX on the money he earns. That’s his ‘fair share’, nothing ‘scott free’ about it.
Folks are VERY clever about figuring out how OTHER folks should pay…
I’m not sure why ( @texases ) you think I’m excluding myself from taxation. I’m willing and happy to pay taxes.
Income tax does not go to the roads. We’re talking about directing taxes to the roads. My argument is to knock it off with a million different taxes on everything and for everything, simplify the tax code, and make everyone pay a fair share. All taxes go into one pot for federal taxes, and one pot for your state’s taxes.
At the end of the day, the highway department doesn’t care if it’s getting its money from a gas tax, a mileage tax, or an income/wealth tax, as long as it’s getting the money it needs. Tying all taxes to wealth and income would eliminate all the hand wringing that comes about when technologies change and reduce taxes from things like fuel sales.
Rod Knox (not being able to @ tag people with more than one word in their screen name is annoying) Income tax / wealth tax. This is easy: If your net worth is greater than $X you are subject to a wealth tax. Allow a wealth tax deduction from your income tax (or vice versa) such that if you paid a wealth tax, you can deduct what you paid from your income tax.
The wealth tax forces extremely rich people who do not have income because they do not have to work to pay taxes such that they, too, contribute to the society from which they benefit so greatly.
And if you’re part of a society (and we are all part of 2, conceptually - USA society and that of whatever state we live in) and society needs something, then everyone should chip in. It’s ridiculous that someone who benefits greatly from society’s roads doesn’t have to help pay for them just because he personally does not drive on them. He still uses them, and everything he does involves roads at some point.
It’s time to stop the Reaganesque thinking of taxes being little more than the government pilfering your hard earned money and start thinking of them as what they are - financing for group buys. We all pay much less for roads (and everything else sourced by the government) by buying them together than we would if we had to buy the roads we use individually. It makes sense for us all to chip in to the pot that goes toward funding them.
The gas tax is almost perfectly aligned with several issues: it has those who use the roads pay for the roads, in proportion to their use (miles) and relative wear on the roads (weight as represented by mpgs). It also fits perfectly with concerns over CO2 emissions, where it favors economical (low CO2) vehicles over gas guzzlers (high CO2). It is in place, is not intrusive, and is readily collected.
These are all reasons it is so heavily favored in Europe. Tax cheating is very difficult, unlike with income or wealth taxes.
None of the other options mentioned so far combine all of these advantages.
And ‘fair’ is in the eye of the beholder, a four letter word…