From the shop’s perspective, it would have been wiser for them to repair the problem in house, control arms and all, simply to avoid the problem and complaint snowballing.
If I had been the shop in question, I would have replaced the parts with the correct aftermarket parts and installed 2 used lower control arms at no cost to you. I would have used aftermarket parts again because the part did not fail or was of low quality, it was simply ordered wrong or misboxed. A simple mistake that happens with both factory and aftermarket parts. I would not have replaced the lower arms with new parts, as your van did not have new parts when it came in. The control arms were 10 years old and 100K miles. I would have returned your car to the condition it was in before the wrong struts damaged it.
I’m assuming that the $1500 included the struts and the control arms.
Unfortunately the manager at the first shop insisted that it’s “almost impossible to get the wrong size for the strut on this car” and, well, he was wrong. I actually wanted to give them the chance to correct it rather than going to the dealer. They accused the dealer’s diagnosis as all made up purely for profit. My simple minded analysis at that moment was to err on the side of trusting the dealer since they had the photos and they said they compared the struts side by side and would leave the replaced parts for me to take to the court.
And the $1,500 is just the control arms. 500 parts and 1000 labor. The struts with alignment was another 1,200. The indy shop is willing to compensate me for the 1,200, but not the 1,500 as they don’t believe the struts caused the damage.
As much as I appreciate the photos, and I truly do, I’m having difficulty interpreting them. But it really doesn’t matter. The shop that installed them has admitted that they put the wrong ones in, so the question becomes did they cause the damage? To my mind, the shock manufacturer should be able to provide extended and compressed dimensions (the latter is the most critical in this case), as should the Toyota dealer. If you were to go to court with that data in documentation, as well as photos of the actual damage, it sounds like you’d have an easy win… UNLESS, of course, you purchased these shocks and asked the shop to install them… in which case you’d be the responsible party. If the shop that installed them made the selection, they’re clearly responsible for “making you whole”; reimbursing you for the cost of all the damages caused by the shocks.
Without knowing what the damage is I will have to speculate that the lower control arm bushings are split/torn. This is a common failure on your vehicle, altering the vehicle ride height may have caused the control arm bushings to tare sooner than expected or they may have been torn before the struts were replaced.
Toyota uses this suspension design on five different vehicles and it is possible for someone to incorrectly substitute perhaps Highlander struts if the correct strut is out of stock.
In the picture the tech is measuring the location of the stabilizer link mounting hole, it proves that the struts are different but he should be measuring the spring seat location.
There was a difference in the front struts for 7 passenger and 8 passenger but I saw no description of the difference only photos. I do agree that it would have been wise for the first shop to put everything back in “like new” condition to avoid costly future problems.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing as @Nevada_545. I think a strut an inch taller or shorter would be enough to push worn control arm bushings over the edge.
Back to @“Dan X” I think it will be almost impossible to “prove” that the wrong struts did damage to your 10 year old lower control arms. Is the first shop part of a chain that may have a local corporate office?
Yes, it is part of a chain and I’m dealing with the corporate office now which is actually local. They now admitted that the struts for the 8 passenger model were used on mine which is the all wheel drive 7 passenger.
Some rubber bushings in control arms are fixed and flex with movement. Maybe the extra length stressed the aged rubber due to the change in position and after some miles of operation the rubber is giving up.
Is the rubber disentegrating the problem with the control arms? That’s about the only possibility I could see as far as damage although binding of the ball joint and tie rod ends is a possibility due to the change in stance.
ok4450: much appreciated! I’ll take your last two points to a meeting on Tuesday with a director from the corporate office of the independent shop. I will also ask the dealer to provide more details in describing the damage to the control arms who promised to back me up in my claim against the other shop.
Some additional points here, if anyone cares to further comment.
By the way, one aspect of the story I didn’t focus is that everything has already been fixed, by the dealer, and I’m in the process of going back to the first shop trying to recover the dealer’s cost every $ of which was unnecessary had they not ordered the wrong struts.
Talked to the dealer service director a bit more, and in answering some of the questions brought up in this discussion - the springs were the original, thus the seating of the springs was not the issue. However, the damage to the control arms was also directly related to the way the sway bar to attach the control arm was installed (positioned). Whatever that means, what I got out of the conversation is that the incorrectly installed sway bar had the same effect as the spring seated too high, causing stress on the control arm leading to “ripped” bushing.
Have the dealer’s shop put into writing the things they told you in your conversation, get a copy of the dimension of the correct shock from the dealer parts guy and the incorrect shock (sounds like that can come from the dealer too) and you should have adequate documentation to pursue the money. Write a letter to the shop that installed the wrong shocks that you’ll be pursuing restitution, with copies of the dealer’s shop order and documentation and the dimensional drawings of the two shocks, and I’ll bet lunch they’ll send you a check without argument.
How does the original shop explain the damage to the control arms? Or is it possible they might not have noticed that they were damaged, even if they were, b/c that’s not something a shop would check for when replacing struts?
Since the work is completed why not post pictures of the damaged control arms? It seems that we get one clue per day.
It doesn’t sound like the control arms were damaged, rather the lower control arm bushing are torn. How long they have been torn is unknown. Did the incorrect position of the stabilizer link mount cause the stabilizer bar to strike the lower control arms? That would have cause noise.
Have the dealer’s shop put into writing the things they told you in your conversation, get a copy of the dimension of the correct shock from the dealer parts guy and the incorrect shock (sounds like that can come from the dealer too) and you should have adequate documentation to pursue the money.
I doubt the OP is going to get that level of cooperation and “testimony” from the dealer. One shop never likes to throw another under the bus, whether they deserve it or not. It’s bad business (and for the industry in general) for one shop to badmouth another. Those of us in the profession prefer to say something like “I’m sure XYZ did the best they could but here’s how we fixed your car” or something like that. Fingerpointing and the blame game gets everyone dirty.
Recently I had a car in for a coolant leak. The water pump was blown but the lower intake gaskets and intake plenum also showed signs of leakage–a common problem for that car. The woman had a work order from 3 months prior showing she paid $680 to have the intake resealed and the work was clearly never done. I wasn’t about to get in the middle of that, so all my work order stated was “Engine leaks coolant at intake gaskets, recommend intake reseal with new plenum, parts appear original.”
Db made a good point too. The shop that installed the wrong parts should probably have been given a chance to correct their mistake and its consequences, but I can understand why the OP took the car to a dealer for an opinion. That’s probably what I’d do.
I’d have to go back and re-read the entire thread but it’s my understanding that the first shop was made aware of the installation error but denied any connection to the worn/damaged control arm.
If that happened here my only remedy to the customer would be for the car to be returned to us for installation of the proper struts and replacement of the lower arms with good used units. I would not reimburse the customer for the repairs done at the dealer. But then I would admit the mistake and correct it in the first place and not deny it all along. Think of how much time and energy that would have saved everyone–especially the first shop.
When I was at the dealership, there were a few instances where a car had obviously been incorrectly repaired at another shop . . . and it was obvious that it was very recent
I showed my service advisor and told him he should send the customer back to the other shop
it just seemed right, and it was the quickest and easiest thing to do
Off the rack, no headache, on to the next job . . .
One of the cases I remember . . . a car came in with a shredded accessory drive belt. The belt was six-row, and it was the correct belt for the vehicle
The recently installed ac compressor had a 7-row pulley
I told my service advisor “Somebody installed the wrong part. Send the customer back to the first shop.”
I told my service advisor “Somebody installed the wrong part. Send the customer back to the first shop.”
I don’t think it’s your place or the service writer’s place to say or do that. I would inform the customer what is wrong and what it would take to fix it and let them decide. They may not trust the other shop anymore. They may be tired of dealing with them. The other shop might have closed last week. Whatever the case, you’ve got the chance to fix it and be the hero. Or they decide to go back to the other shop, that’s fine too. The way I look at it, it’s not my car, it’s not my money, so it’s not my decision.