+1
I think that they have always made a lot of sense, beginning with Ferdinand Porsche’s invention of the concept…
in 1900.
I recently read that Mazda is working on a new hybrid design, using a small rotary engine that–when needed–would essentially run at a constant speed to recharge the batteries. So, there could be both a rotary engine and a hybrid in some people’s futures.
Tesla Model 3
1,060lbs battery pack
4,065lbs total weight
358 mile range
26% of the energy is used to transport the battery pack.
Toyota Corolla
2,910lbs
33mpg - 358/33 = 11 gallons of gas = 358 miles
66lbs = 11 gallons = 33lbs avg takes you 358 miles
1.1% of the energy is used to transport the fuel
Takes nearly 24x more energy to transport the Model3’s fuel compared to the Corolla.
Inconvenient Math…lol
Shall we talk about road damage?
The Generalized Fourth Power Rule
(W1/W2)^4
(4065/2910)^4 = 3.81
381% more road damage occurs from a Model 3 compared to a Corolla!
All vehicles lose value minute you drive it off lot. One reason to buy year or two old used.
My Prius hybrid 2007 150 K miles has original battery. Most of the more modern EV batteries have a high recycle value. I have no worry over cost of battery replacement. People rebuild or replace ICE engines also when needed. My maintenance on this has been minimal: oil, brakes, muffler (high-rust state). So, if still have it at 20 years and it needs a new battery that will the the choice off the NEXT owner, sell it for maybe $2000, they add after-market battery $1500, they will be good to go for several more years, saving some gas, polluting less.
Me, I will be driving a used 2024 EV.
I would not buy Chinese–or FORD!-- ever. Always owned quality Japanese (Toyota, Subaru), best value for reliability also!
Just curious about the reason for your Ford antipathy? Ford’s products seem like they are pretty good quality overall. (Full disclosure, I’m a Ford owner.) Ford does seem to have a bit of a reputation of late for not wanting to admit to responsibility for design and/or manufacturing problems that crop up, trying to avoid recalls and the like. Is that your issue w/Ford?
Perhaps he likes unintended acceleration (Toyota) or blown head gaskets (Subaru).
I like to refute this myth. Over all it is true. Newer cars are safer, comparing the average 1990 fleet to the average 2022 fleet, in all driving conditions. Increased seat belt use from 1990 to 2022 is not accounted for when such statistics are published, which falsely widens the gap. They also don’t test for passenger safety. They don’t test at speeds above 40 MPH. They rarely do big versus small crash tests even at 40 MPH. Vehicles with compact short front ends are becoming more popular. These vehicles have less room to smash in in an accident. It’s a fundamental problem that can’t be fixed as long as the engine stays in the frunt.
Modern cars have much better side impact crash protection. This make a big differenc in city driving. Compare head on crashes from 1990 to 2022 and things are better for modern cars too, but only when averaging out all vehicles. Take a good car from the 90s, or a big car from the 80s or 90s and things are different.
Crash a 1995 Chevy Lumina in to a 2022 Toyota Prius or Corolla head on at 50 MPH and the Lumina will demolish the front of the Toyotas and two adult men sitting in the front of the Toyotas will bottom out the restraint systems and be killed.
Crash a Mitsubishi Mirage, Yaris, or Spark in to a big car from the 80s like a Crown Victoria head on at 50 MPH and everybody in the sub compact cars will be killed.
So if you mostly drive in the city, any modern car will be safe unless it’s a sub compact. If you’re rural and you drive on non divided highways a lot, it’s a totally different game.
How does your power company segregate the sustainable electrons from the unsustainable ones? How does your power company supply electricity to your home at night when the wind doesn’t blow? The answer…they don’t, they use fossil fuels to power your home.
This program and those like it, IMHO, are feel-good fantasies that customers are willing to pay $9 a month for to assuage their guilt.
Will you just shut up . I have yet to see anyone here actally agree with your nonsense .
Is the SNOWMAN spouting nonsense again or yet.
There’s so much misinformation, opinion and stubborn clinging to ideas that are not based on reason that it’s impossible to make any sort of rational comment other than to revert to what seems to eventually work.
If you don’t like or want an EV, don’t buy one. If you and I disagree, fine, you do what you think is right and I’ll do what I think is right. As long as you don’t urinate in my well and I don’t burn down your house we can get by.
There are consequences to 6 or 7 billion humans on this planet, and the way some of us do things impacts all of us. We have an obligation to try and be kind to each other.
Those rear wheel drive Volvos don’t do well in overlap crashes. They’re rather weak. The driver would likely have been killed, but in the airbag version of the car they would survive but with leg injuries.
How about a much stronger vehicle like a Lumina / Monte Carlo in a crash test.
This a public policy issue.
Should we spend billions upon billions of OUR money to switch to EV’s?
Why should we do this?
The increased weight of a Telsa Model 3 does nearly 4x the road damage of a Corolla - how is this “green”
26% of the energy used by a Model 3 is used to haul around the battery - extremely wasteful
Due to the weight of the battery pack, a Model 3 requires larger tires that wear out faster than the Corolla - tires are extremely energy intensive and require oil! They also have to be disposed of which is a never ending problem.
Battery replacement costs will send EV’s to the junk yard faster requiring an entirely new car to be built to replace it.
Where will the electricity come from? Solar and wind are not going to replace coal, natgas and nuke. Do the math, if you switched every car to EV, it would take ~119,000,000 commercial wind generators to charge them all.
The most common reply to these important facts/questions is to discount/ignore them or simply say “we’ll figure it out as we go”…beyond lame.
PS. I’m not anti-EV; I’m pro common sense.
Far better for the environment.
Quote taken from article below.
They emit fewer greenhouse gases and air pollutants than petrol or diesel cars. And this takes into account their production and electricity generation to keep them running.
Benefits of Electric Cars on Environment | EV & Petrol Cars | EDF (edfenergy.com)
How many people are buying Tesla 3’s instead of a Corolla. The Tesla 3 is comparable to the Camry or Lexus.
Well over 30% of and ICE vehicle is used to carry the engine around. Which weighs a lot more than those electric motors.
ALL vehicles require tires. Can’t get around that.
I know several people with EV’s and plug-in hybrids and hybrids. Only ONE person had every to replace a battery (and that was after 10 years of use). But he was able to just replace the dead cells which is significantly cheaper then replacing the whole battery pack.
The math has already been for you. This isn’t going to happen over night. Even if the mandate holds true to the date there will still be MILIONS of ICE vehicles on the road decades after. The grid is growing. A lot through renewable like solar and wind.
+1 to Mike’s comments, but i will add…
Give it a rest, Old Days.
You will never convince others to change their opinion on this topic. nor will we convince you.
I really think hybrids or plug in hybrids with longer range are the way we need to go for now. Going full EV seems like it is going to cause more issues than people realize with the power grid, etc.
People with a Prius seem to like them a lot. My parents recently rented a car for a trip. It was supposed to be some type of midsized SUV. They were all out at the rental place so were offered a Prius instead for the same price. They weren’t real happy at first but were able to make it work once they reorganized their luggage. Gas was also like $6/gallon where they were at the time so the Prius definitely had some appeal to them once they realized the mileage it was getting.
LOL! You provide a link to a company that sells electricity that is promoting electric cars!
even with electricity generation, the carbon emissions of an electric car are around 17 – 30% lower than driving a petrol or diesel car.
Ok, so best case, carbon emissions are 30% lower…
But what about the “carbon emissions” (CE) involved in repairing the roads? Nearly 4x more road damage from a Model3 compared to the corolla.
What about the CE from building larger tires more frequently and disposing of those tires?
What about the CE of building and disposing of 100’s of millions of solar panels and commercial wind turbines that generally have a 20 year life span?
So many extra “carbon emissions” involved in EV’s that are being left out of the equation; I would bet a 10% reduction would be stretching it.
PS>
Well over 30% of and ICE vehicle is used to carry the engine around. Which weighs a lot more than those electric motors.
BOLOGNA!
Tesla3 motor weighs 100lbs.
1.8L Corolla motor weighs 225lbs - LINK
1,160/4065 = 29% of energy used by a Model3 is to move the fuel/engine
258/2910 = 9% for the Corolla
ICE use 69% less energy to haul their engine/fuel than EV’s.
Those are some good points! But the road damage is not significant. If a single semi truck does as much damage as 1000 Teslas or 4000 corollas, then the real problem is the semi trucks. The Tesla versus Corolla comparison is now insignificant. Also, the issue of hauling the battery around is only relevant in city or stop and go low speed driving. On the highway, most of the energy is used to overcome wind resistance. The presence of the battery does not take enough room to change the aerodynamic shape of the Tesla, so it does not contribute to loss when cruising on the highway. Adding 1000 pounds to your vehicle will hardly change your highway cruising fuel economy.
Are you sure the Tesla 3 motor is only 100lb? I think they may have two motors, making that 200lb. Concealing this fact from the media and customers is exactly the kind of thing that those pushing EVs would do. Electric motors are usually quite heavy. I the sub 10 HP range, an electric motor usually weighs more than a gasoline engine.
It makes a huge difference. The energy required is nearly 1.3x as much! Every time you start from a stop it takes 1.33x as much energy. Wind resistance is small in the city.
Regarding wearing out roads, if the road would last 25 years with Teslas on it, or 100 years with Corollas on it, but it has to be replaced every 4 years anyway because Semi trucks drive on it, then it doesn’t really make a difference if Teslas or Corollas drive on it. Makes sense?
