Expect the worst: “let them rechange the oil and clean it and make the manager put in writing that he will cover engine for the next 6 mo. He said, if on the off chance it is damaged, it will show up in days”
Then hope for the best. It is possible that your engine will be okay.
I don’t think it’s worth it to do a partial tear down on the engine. At 150K miles, it will have some wear no matter what.
The dealership also stands to lose from this. They’d be committing to tearing the engine down and inspecting it, and therefore being on the hook if they missed something in addition to re-assembling the engine which can add failure points to it, and you’ve already shown them that you’re willing to go after shops who screw up your car. They probably don’t want to take on the liability for a job that will take a long time and put a tech out of commission for the better part of a day.
If I were the oil shop manager and I wanted to get out of paying for your engine I could probably make a pretty convincing case (to a judge who doesn’t know anything about cars) that there’s no way you can now prove whether my flubbed oil change or the dealership’s possibly flubbed teardown/reassembly caused the engine to develop problems.
Agreed. It is not a new car and probably not worth the tear down. I just HATE that this happened at all. I know people (including me!) make mistakes, and I want to be fair, but I dont want to end up with blown engine either. It has been a rock of an SUV with only minor wear and tear repairs.
I will demand that the manager put in writing that he will cover the engine for 6 months when I see him Saturday.
Sheesh, what a mess.
So I will certainly demand in writing that he will cover engine for 6 months. I will speak to him in person Sat when he does the oil change.
Sorry, but going 1 mile with the oil lamp on is engine damaging. The crankshaft bearings ride on a pressurized film of oil that is only a few thousandths of inch thick. When the oil pressure is zero, meaning the lamp is on, that film of oil disppears in a few seconds on a running engine. Even assuming a 60 MPH speed that means 60 full seconds with no oil pressure.
A noise test can be meaningless. What would I do? First off would be an oil pressure test which is easy enough to do. After that I would drop the oil pan and pull a few crankshaft bearing caps to examine the bearings. At that mileage there will be some normal wear on the bearings but there should not be any major loss of the overlay, bearing flaking, scoring, etc. The only way of knowing this is to actually go in and look; and this is not a complicated thing to do.
If this were done any removed bearing caps should be ones that are located the fartherest from the oil pump as these would be the first ones to be damaged.
Some of the worn bearings in the link below can show you what I’m talking about; especially the lubrication and cavitation damaged ones. (Caviation being air bubbles in the oil pressure system due to the oil level being very low so this 1 or 2 quarts and fine scenario is not a good argument.)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm
Hope that helps.
So I give up.
I really dont know what to do.
It seems pretty gloom and doom no matter, and it all amounts to my stupid girl-word against the oil manager and it seems like I am screwed regardless.
Just get it in writing that he’ll cover the engine for 6 months. If he won’t put it in writing, that’s fine too. Document everything, with dates, so that if the engine dies any time soon you can haul his butt into court and force him to pay if he won’t honor the verbal agreement.
Then keep driving your car, and if it breaks, go after him. Otherwise, you (and he) got away with it.
I have taken pics of the oil under and on my car, I have an nedighbor/witness that heard the manager accept responsiblity and his offer to indefinetly cover the engine, and I plan to require it in writing. I do have friends that are attorneys that would be more than willing to help, I just hope it never comes to that.
I sincerely appreciate all of the comments and help you all have provided. I am so grateful.
Now you are in a position where you are limited to trips of a certain mileage. That mileage being how far you care to walk when your engine quits on you. It is true you did face (and all of us do to some degree with any car) this possibility before the oil incident, it is only now your chances of becomming a pedesterian are much greater.
Many people write and ask if their car is safe for a trip. You car is not safe to be taken on a trip anymore, no matter what kind of pre-trip inspection is done.
I can examine engine rod bearings and tell you if what I see is normal wear or if what I am seeing is a damaged rod bearing.
What I would want is the pan removed and rod bearings replaced even if they look good, they owe you this much and it will restore you to as close as you were before the incident,short of a new engine. Tell them you want the confidence you had in your car restored. Sure you have 150K on your engine,but it could easily have gone 250K if this did not happen (or at least present this idea like you believe it).
I second all of oldschool’s comments and remember this. Not being mechanically knowledgeable does not for one second make you a stupid person. It only makes you ignorant of that particular subject and this applies to every single person alive along with all of our predecessors and anyone who will be born in the future.
And while the word is often taken wrong, ignorant does not mean stupid. It only means that one is not knowledgeable in the subject at hand. There are some exceptions to the rule though.
One is the service manager at a VW dealer I worked for and to quote the factory rep; “See that bald-headed sxx xx x xxxxx in the office? Now THAT is stupid”. 
Thanks ok4450, I admit my ignorance on this subject and whole heartedly accept all of the above advice with much gratitude
My guess is the plug was loose and leaking and that created the puddle. It later fell out completely.
I’m having trouble understanding this. What business model says you turn down billable hours “for the better part of a day”?
“on the hook if they missed something in addition to re-assembling the engine which can add failure points to it, and you’ve already shown them that you’re willing to go after shops who screw up your car.”
Isn’t it their job to try not to miss things? That last bit sounds like they would rather just move along and screw up someone else’s car.
First of all, kudos to you for having the presence of mind to notice these details, handling it in a mature and responsible manner, and reaching out for information.
Secondly, kudos to the lube shop owner for owning up to the problem. Especially where this vehicle is already high mileage. Even though they’re insured for damages such as this, most shops would refuse to accept responsibility and make you prove it in court.
The critical places where loss off lubrication is felt are the cylinders and the crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. The cylinders will feel it as scoring (the compression rings digging into the cylinder walls) and excessing wear typically, and this can be checked with a simple compression test.
The bearings normally ride on a pressurized film of oil and are subject to large sideways (lateral) forces as well as rotational action. Loss of that film leaves the surfaces to rub totgether at high speeds under large lateral forces. This can cause damaged to the bearing and the crankshaft surfaces. Unfortunately, the only way damage to these can be determined is to remove the oil pan, open up one or two of each (they come apart in halves), and inspect them for damage.
If the engine were not already high mileage I’d recommend this inspsction. In this case, since there’s none of the bearing knock that typically proves damage, if the vehicle were mine I’d probably just check the compression, keep driving it, monitor oil usage, and ask the lube shop manager to purchase an extended warranty for me. But I also could not argue with getting the bearings checked. You’d certainly be fully justified in doing so.
Sincere best.
PostScript:
I wrote this before reading the posts from OK4450 and Oldschool. It sounds like the three of us are “on the same page”.
Again, I wish you the best.
Thank you for your input! So far so good…granted it has only been days and it still smells of burnt oil when I park, but it is running smoothly. I will be leaving work at 5 and driving 2 hours North to the city where the Lube shop is located so fingers crossed for the first trip over a mile from my home.
I hate the whole situation but the manager has so far been very kind, and I have returned the respect he has given. I do feel lucky that this is not a chain type shop.
I feel the best I can hope for given the mileage/age is some type of written agreement regarding any engine damage for at least 6 months. I think that is very fair given the severity of this mistake. Hopefully, this engine will continue to be the be the good old reliable car I have known for the past 6+ years, and this will be a nice cautionary tale I can relay to all my female pals
Yours sounds like a very reasonable and mature solution. Sincere best.
I think you found a great dealer and should try and get something written from the change place so there is no misunderstanding
Just read this discussion.
One very important fact: the morning after the incident, you found a large puddle of oil under the car. That means that when you parked it the night before, there was oil in the engine, perhaps 1 or 2 quarts. which means you did not run the engine dry.
I think you are fine.
Good Luck
“Checked dip stick and it was very over filled. Had a 2 hour drive to get home and at the end of trip, the oil light starts to flash and it smelled burnt”
In this case I suspect the problem wasn’t loss of oil, but rather foaming of the oil by the crankshaft due to serious overfilling.
You can pull the drain plug and leave it out for the time required to do a normal oil change and then as an test you can leave this plug out overnight and temperature dependant there will be a noticeable amount of oil that drained from the engine during this overnight test period.
In short, the presence of oil below the car (on the ground) cannot be construed to indicate that there was sufficent oil in the car during its “engine on/oil light on” drive period.