I think this thread has outlived its usefulness
OK…I am not defending @2014rubyred3500 at all here but her/his comments have reminded me of something I heard a long time ago. I used to belong to an online Corvette forum years ago. One of the biggest complaints about Fram filters was that the paper filter at the bottom of the canister used to dislodge or come apart and block the oil passage to the engine. I have no proof that this ever happened but the paper filter dislodging or coming apart theory has been around for a long time. Since I have full faith and respect for the members here that are defending Fram…I will start using their filters again if the price of the ones I’m using now ever goes up.
I don’t use Fram filters either BUT I can see the silicone being from someone using WAY too much RTV getting into the oil and plugging up the passages. This could be from a resealed valve cover, oil pan, timing cover, or others. I saw a picture where cam journals were coated with RTV and that basically ruined the thing.
Some years ago, one of my colleagues was repairing an engine and used too much rtv. The overhead cams burned up
@Dagosa “Drindleturd”… that’s probably not a color that you’ll see on paint swatches down at Sherwin-Williams. LOL.
If the check valve or RTV sealant is found in an engine oil galley it must have passed through the filter.
One thing I hate is how manufacturers make various grades of products and sometimes certain variations are hard to differentiate from the actual decent product. I know that this has nothing to do with cars, but I work on computers and notice how many of the ones from Wal-Mart are just made well enough so that they can turn on and that is it. They also seem made to just die like 2 weeks after the warranty is up. Now I am sure that some have better luck but you have to remember that I don’t typically see computers brought to me that are working perfectly well.
For example, I recently had a quad core Intel i5 based system in for work that was purchased at Wal-Mart. The Intel Core i5 is a respectable processor and is definitely overkill for more users and it surprised me that this unit had come from Wal-Mart. I was able to confirm it did come from Wal-Mart as the model number was specific to that store. The power supply had fried just after the warranty was up which is typical. Once that was fixed and the operating system was restored because of serious virus infestations, the computer still ran extremely slow.
Further research indicated this was a common issue on this model. Mother computer motherboards typically include heatsinks on several of the controllers. Heatsinks are blocks of metal with cooling fins that essentially serve as small radiators. These are made of aluminum and/or copper to dissipate the heat. This motherboard had no heatsinks present except for the one on the actual CPU itself. It had the holes drilled for the mounts and the outline of the heatsink printed on the board so you could tell it was designed to have heatsinks installed. They simply leave these off the cheaper units to save a couple bucks. This causes the components to run hot which causes them to slow down performance in order to keep from frying themselves and also shortens the life of the components all for just a couple bucks.
Now the motherboard used in this is the same exact one as is used in better models so one can simply buy the heatsinks for those models and they simply snap right into the holes which are already present for their mounting in a matter of seconds. Doing so costs more after the fact but prolongs the life of the computer and can increase performance by up to 4x in some cases. The owner chose not to do this as she needed the computer back ASAP and it ran fine for her needs but others have since opted for the upgrade.
The basic moral of this story is that the manufacturer could have made a pretty decent budget computer had they spent about $50 more for a better power supply and the inclusion of heatsinks on the motherboard. They are making a product to just be cheaply priced without regards for anything else. These are simply price point products. The problem is that the average person doesn’t know the difference and just buys on price, ending up with a problematic and often throwaway product. I am also not a fan of the Black Friday specials for cheap as they are usually made much the same.
There is a famous article about this with Snapper mower and Wal-Mart. Look it up online as posting links seems to delay postings. You will also see that Snapper looks to have changed ownership since the time of this article and is now selling there.
As long as people make buying decisions on price alone, you will keep seeing this.
As long as people make buying decisions on price alone, you will keep seeing this.
Especially with technology people know nothing about.
Yep, or something as simple as an oil filter. It is just a metal can that you screw in when you change your oil, right?
Any mass-market PC is going to have shortcuts taken in order to get production costs down. HP/Dell/Acer/etc. They are going to have the cheapest mobo and cheapest PSU’s they can get away with. You’re not going to find heatsinks on the VRMs, you’re not going to find a high quality PSU that can output it’s rated power continuously, and half the time you’re not going to find more than two RAM slots on the lower end Dells/HPs/Acers
My solution : Build one yourself, you get exactly what you want, you’re in charge of the quality, it’s not much more expensive on low end builds, and actually quite bit cheaper on higher end builds. And contrary to what most people think, it’s not that difficult, everything only goes together one way, it’s nearly impossible to plug something in backwards. After you get your first build under your belt, most people can put together a desktop PC in less than an hour, depending upon the complexity of the build and how nice of a cabling job you’re trying to pull off.
So-called private branding has been around for many years. I buy house brand orange juice at Walmart and save a bundle. House brand aspirins at Costco (Kirkland brand) are half the price of the branded product, which is heavily advertised on TV, a major cost.
Wirlpool owns Maytag, Magic Chef, Amana, and a number of other brands, as well as making many of Sears’s Kenmore brands. We own a Kenmore fridge which is an Amana brand in disguise, and was nearly $200 less than the Amana branded model. The Amana model has a more deluxe execution than the regular Whirlpool model. The guts parts are the same; it would be more expensive to make different levels of quality for the refrigeration sysyem itself.
I worked for Outboard Marine (now called Bombardier Recreational Products or BRP) in the distant past, and we had to make a Johnson model for Sears, in which Sears guaranteed to buy so many thousand a year. They were in the catalogue and stores, and sold for less than a Johnson. The economics worked as follows for us: no advertising, no sales costs, no inventory carrying costs; Sears could sell for less than our dealers. They moved 30,000 to 40,000 units per year.
Other outlets sold the ELTO (Evinrude Light Twin Outboard), a pure Evinrude with a diiferent shroud.
Both Kenmore and Elto outboards could be serviced by any dealer since they were mechanically identical.
Y’know, guys, this thread has over 80 posts. And this is the same subject we’ve debated countless time before. I cannot help but think that everything that can be said about oil filters has been said already in this thread… again.
Bustedknuckles, I saw your early post. 50 replies you said? You underestimated our sense of self-importance!!!
You’re absolutely right @mountainbike. You can rest assure that this same exact topic will resurface at some point in time. I’ll resist but somewhere along the way I’ll jump in and comment just like I have always done in the past. We are creatures of habit.
Found out a FLS-400 Motorcraft oil filter will work on my Dodge,good filter use em all the time now’.Delco is good(Fram filters work fine) NAPA GOLD very good(used to be Wix(drop the first digit on the Wix 5 digit model NO. and usually you will end up with the 4 digit Napa number-Kevin
Agreed on the PC stuff… I generally build my own desktops too or suggest a business line for those who want a huge warranty and don’t mind paying for it. The sad thing is that Dell, HP, etc. have the know how to make some of the best computers in the world but simply feel the need to make a price point product like everyone else. They can and do still make excellent business grade units for those willing to pay the price for quality. The problem is that the average consumer will drive around town in an attempt to save $15 over the next cheapest place. A business understands that spending an extra $300 on a computer that lasts longer and is more reliable will more than pay for itself in short order. If one worker’s computer goes down, they would easily lose more than $300 in lost work in just one day. I have spent $200-300 just on the power supply for computers. This is about the same as most bargain basement systems. Computers can get expensive just like aftermarket parts for cars. One part I am in love with is the solid state drive or SSD. This is like going from a horse and buggy (mechanical hard drive) to a Ferrari (SSD). These can easily exceed the cost of most basic consumer systems and that is just for one part. It is faster by a huge margin, more reliable, more forgiving to mechanical shock, more forgiving to dirt and dust, uses less energy, and generates less heat.
As for car parts, you usually have like two or three grades at the parts store. Sometimes the only difference between the medium grade and the premium grade is the difference between a year warranty and a lifetime warranty on the part. Often the people who work there will tell me “You don’t want to buy the cheap one as it just falls apart.” They know I want to be able to hop into any of my cars and just drive it to California if I had to.
The extreme end of reliability is stuff made for NASA and other mission critical purposes. You can’t exactly buy a replacement in outer space and a breakdown isn’t just an inconvenience. This is why a part bought by NASA can cost MANY times that of a part for a GM, Toyota, Ford, etc. That part will undergo testing, inspection, and assurance that the material quality and tolerances are second to none.
NAPA Gold and Wix filters both belong to Affinia. Some, but not all, of the cheaper Napa filters are also Affinia
It’s the fedish we have of changing motor oil as the major way we maintain our cars because it’s the easiest thing we can do and still self identify our selves as car guys. When we all drive electric cars, we will have to go through a period of self examination of our worth as a major contributor to the family. No longer can we “hide” underneath the car and come out with oily hands and prove to our mates we are just as important for survival as the food preparer and house work doer. We are just 5 quarts of oil and a filter away from loosing relevancy…and not long after from extinction.
Let’s talk filters, same time next year.
" We are just 5 quarts of oil and a filter away from loosing relevancy…and not long after from extinction".
@dagosa–I no longer change the oil in our vehicles. I used to do repairs like water pumps and fuel pumps. The only thing that now keeps me from going to extinction from relevancy is that I am still able to change the battery in my wife’s wrist watch. I just did this and it usually lasts 3 years, so maybe I have another 3 years of relevancy.
@triedaq
You are my hero.
There is a limited amount of time I will spend on a car. I used to do my brakes, adjust the valves, change exhaust systems …anything to save money. But, my tools started to out number my toys. I made a decision and now my car ,maintenance is reserved to checking fluids and maintaining the body, the single most valuable component in the whole car. I do all my own regular maintenance and some repairs on my tractor…but everything is real simple and exposed. I leave the cars to people with the facilities and tools and oil changes only when I have a place to take the oil…like my neighbors waste oil burner heater for his nursery. My filters ARE sometimes orange. Kubota OEM.