Not Much Reason To Buy A Manual, Except To Be A Stubborn Curmudgeon

General Discussion
21

Hey, I respect your seniority, @“the same mountainbike” you can be #1 curmudgeon, I’ll be #2 curmudgeon. :smiley: (or #3 if someone else already has dibs on #2. . . :neutral: )

I’ve heard this too, that one can “beat” the EPA numbers with a manual transmission - only one way to really find out though. . .

@galant stated: "If I buy a used manual shift car with 60K miles or more, I factor in the cost of a new clutch in the purchase price and then decide on what price to pay for the car. Most who buy them, don’t know how to drive a stick and that is the reason they are getting rid of the car in the first place. " I agree. That’s why I’m so leery of buying a used manual trans car in the first place. Based on my experiences in traffic, many people don’t drive so well to begin with, much less a manual, which requires more skill / attention to the task at hand.

Seems like a “sell-out” thing to do - buy a brand new car. Yeah, I can afford it, but I didn’t GET to the point where I CAN afford it by throwing my money around like a drunken sailor buyin’ new cars and stuff - that’s the kind of thing my spendthrift colleagues do ('course they buy brand new Bmw’s and Escalades, which sometimes end up being repossessed)

Of course, on the other hand, you buy new, you KNOW nobody’s ever ragged it out, neglected the maintenance / fluid changes, ground up the clutch; you get to choose the exact color, trans, and options you want, you get the full new car warranty. . . oh yeah, and you know its not a flood car (seems like there’s been a lot of hurricanes and floods lately, I bet there’s a lot of flood cars out there right now).

And then if you keep the car for 20 years you amortize the hit on depreciation, so its not so bad, and if you DO decide you want another car after 5 years (as was suggested to me on another thread) you’ve got a car that’s worth more than salvage value. I know some here say the Japanese cars are quite over-rated, but say what you will, they DO hold their value well.

My late Mother said on several occasions that everyone should own at least ONE brand new car in their lifetime.

OR, am I just trying to rationalize the idea of buying brand new?

22

Just remember, we don’t have the choice of many ‘proven’ transmissions any more. If not the unproven CVT, there’s the unproven dual clutch automated manual (that’s been a problem in a number of Fords) and the 8-9 speed ‘regular’ automatics ( the 9 speed ones have been a problem for Chrysler). And then there’s the very limited choice of manuals. Right now I like Mazda because they’ve kept with a 6 speed AT.

23

@Mustangman , “Criminals walk away from manuals because they can’t drive them.” EXACTLY!

24

Manual transmission cars often get worse gas mileage that the comparable automatic model because people that buy manuals want better acceleration, and the cars geared accordingly.

@“Ed Frugal” if you want a manual, get one. You may have to order it, but the order will cost the dealer less than any speculative purchase they make, because it spends zero days on the lot. Dealers pay a few percent less than the invoice cost when they buy the car. Since there is no cost to carry the car, they should be willing to give the spread to you. If they order 20 cars at once and one is yours, they already have the sale. They still have to order color, trim level, and all options. Buying one with your manual transmission is no big deal. If they try to tell you how expensive it is to do a “special” order, go to another dealer. Eventually one will actually want your business enough to sell it to you without the smoke and mirrors. Hey, you might get the one honest car salesman in your town and it won’t be a problem at all.

25

". . . the one honest car salesman. . . " yeah, or perhaps the one who just needs ONE MORE SALE to meet some sales quota and win a trip to Bermuda or something. I think I read that on this very website in the interview with “Deep Plaid”. :smiley:

'Course, you go in there, already done your homework, know what you want and what’s a fair price to pay, the salesman doesn’t have to spend a lot of time on you, he can “punch the card” and move on to the next prospect. If you’re paying cash, you avoid all that song-and-dance manipulation with the f&i dept too.

26

If ordering, you need only put money down, then pay in a couple months when the car is delivered. You better hurry. There is about 2.5 months left in the production cycle before they shut down for annual maintenance and to get ready to build the 2017 model year.

27

Youall just gave me a great anti-theft idea.
Produce and sell a kit that is a FAKE clutch pedal and shift lever !

28

“I’m a little surprised that folks mostly support my position, I guess I was kind of expecting people to tell me to “hang it up” with the manual transmissions already.”

14% of my current cars have a manual transmission. I drove Volkswagens for hundreds of thousands of miles. Weeee! Nobody I know is awe struck that I drive a manual and nobody considers me a hero for it. It could be considered fun somehow once in a while, I guess.

Now I’m more into comfort, quiet cabin with little to no road noise, some guts and performance, a good sound system, and a smooth shifting auto trans and drinking coffee…
hang it up!
CSA

29

Be sure to compare 0-60 times when comparing mpg figures, manual to cvt or automatic. It’s easy to get better mpg with a slower 0-60 number.

When I purchased my Corolla new – this was 20 + years ago – the lot had no manual transmission configured Corollas on their lot with the other features I wanted/didn’t want. In particular no AC. They had to search the dealerships throughout Calif to find one, which they located at a dealership about 40 miles away. I had to compromise on the color though. It didn’t seem to affect their willingness to negotiate on the price. They were equally greedy before they found the car on the other lot, and after … lol … seriously, I don’t spend a lot of time to try to squeeze the dealership for the absolutely best price. First of all, I don’t buy cars very often. And when I do, as long as I’m getting the product I want, and the seller treats me honestly and respectfully, I can use that same amount of time earning money in other ways much easier.

I wouldn’t be overly concerned about a manual xmission used car with 100k miles on it. Who cares if you don’t know if the clutch is about to give out. First of all, the clutch is probably fine. And if it isn’t, it’s not that big of a deal to install a replacement clutch on most econo-boxes. The same can’t be said for most automatic transmission problems.

30

I’ve owned mostly manuals mostly because I have a strong keep-it-simple-stupid (KISS) bias. I also prefer windows with cranks, manual turntables, and most of my guns are loaded by pouring gunpowder down the barrel first.
Also, it keeps people from asking if they can borrow my car.

31

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 4 mpg difference isn’t an illusion. I have read that most people get less than rated mileage with CVTs because of the “motorboat” effect. That is the rpms go up before the car starts moving so people step harder on the gas to compensate.

On buying new or used, my rule is buy American used to take advantage of the depreciation.

Buy Japanese new because used Japanese cars are overvalued in the marketplace and depreciate to slowly.

32

Yup, “buy domestic used; buy Asian new” is a good rule-of-thumb, just like the “bet favorites to place, bet longshots to win” my dad gave me.

33

Response to @jtsanders , Whew, really? So I guess I won’t be able to swoop in in October and grab that 2016 with the manual at a bargain? Seriously, though, I guess its a crapshoot. You’ve just gotta be in the right place at the right time.

@GeorgeSanJose , sounds like what you did 20+ years ago is what I’m fixin’ to do today - buy a new (maybe) car and keep it 20+ years. I’m not going to obsess over squeezing out the last $50 - $100 out of the deal either. I just want a fair deal, and get the hexx out of there. I don’t want to later find out that I overpaid - - although that’s unlikely, because most of the people I know are either monthly payment buyers, OR, like me they haven’t bought a car in a long time, and they consider anything over $5,000 to be overpriced anyway and will roll their eyes as such.

Something else I hadn’t thought of, I haven’t actually driven a CVT car. Perhaps the test drive will be so intolerable as to make getting the manual a no-brainer?

Really I would prefer to buy an “American” vehicle (although that opens up the discussion “built” in America OR built by a company headquartered in America? Two very different things, these days) But the Ford Fiesta is a dissappointment, the little Chevys are re-badged Daewoos, and Chrysler, ho ho! For as much as a car costs these days, I can’t afford to roll the dice on reputation and reliability, although I’m sure some here will disagree with my assessment. As I have said before, I’ve had my eye on that Honda Fit for close to a decade now, and I believe it “Fits” my requirements, if you’ll pardon my pun. In short there’s not really an “American” vehicle which meets my needs.

Maybe I’ll buy a used Toyota Tundra (built in Texas) in a few years for my eventual tow vehicle. Cross-referencing that other thread about the $1 gas, perhaps my timing is pretty good. Buy the econobox commuter car now while gas is cheap and such cars are out of favor. Buy a brawny tow vehicle in a few years when gas prices go up and those vehicles go out of favor!

34

I prefer a manual transmission and have one in my 1999 Honda Civic. The 2007 Town and Country van has a 4-speed automatic, which fits the overall spirit of that vehicle.

Reasons I like manuals:

  1. More engaging to drive. Using it thoughtfully and skillfully gives pleasurable feedback.
  2. No shaking dash and steering column at idle in gear with brake on.
  3. Better MPG, all other factors being equal.
  4. Can be push or roll started if the battery is discharged.
  5. Can be moved a short distance with starter motor - useful for those times your engine conks out on railroad tracks.

So far only #6 has not been a factor for me.

35
5. Can be moved a short distance with starter motor - useful for those times your engine conks out on railroad tracks.

No longer true in most cars, the starter won’t crank unless the clutch pedal is pushed to the floor. However, I’m sure that could be easily defeated.

36
  1. No shaking dash and steering column at idle in gear with brake on.

Haven’t noticed that in years (decades?).

37

It’s a crap shoot if you want to buy a car that few other drivers want and expect to find it on the car lot. It’s up to you, @“Ed Frugal”. If you are serious about buying a car with a manual transmission, you can buy one anytime you want, but you have to order it. Unless it’s a sportscar or pony car.

38

Sadly some dealers are reluctant to order a manual transmission for stock because the last one on the lot took forever to sell. ordering or trading with another dealer is preferred. According to a friend who was the sales manager for our local Nissan Dealer

My older brother got his '06 Subaru Legacy wagon (manual)when the local dealer found one 350 miles away and he was able to take delivery a couple days later. To get a GTi with the right options and with a manual he had to put in a order but got at least a good deal on the car.He’s going to keep at least one of the cars for when his kids start learning to drive so that they can learn on a stick shift.

39

B.L.E. - You’re right. Nowadays touching the clutch pedal pauses the cruise control, which I like, so I don’t have to take my foot off the gas and touch the brake, or have my finger in a specific spot on the steering wheel. I bypassed the clutch switch on my 1984 Chevy Cavalier when it failed, so it would have been possible to move the car on the starter, as had been the case in decades of earlier cars. I learned to drive in a WW2 surplus Jeep and a 1960s Corvair, both of which lacked certain safety features now common. But both could have moved using only the starter motor. I’ll remember not to rely on that attribute in my modern 1999 Honda Civic!

texases - That shaky vibration used to bug me in automatics. My 2007 Town and Country does not have that problem. I bet you’re right, that the NVH engineers have solveded that problem in recent decades.

40

Right now, with my right wrist swollen to nearly twice its normal size due to an accident at work, it would actually be nice if my car did have an automatic. I wince with pain every time I have to shift gears, especially the fourth to fifth shift. I sometimes reach over and use my left hand to put it in first at stops.
The 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 shifts aren’t too bad, mostly just pushing and pulling but the side force I have to use for the 4-5 shift kind of hurts.