When oil was trading at $110($2.6/gal)gasoline was selling at $3.20 Recently gasoline has sold at $1.60 while WTI was at $31($.73/gal). When you allow for taxes the refiners were selling gasoline at a loss when it was $3.20 while they were clearing $.40/gallon selling at $1.60… I don’t trust a word they or the politicians they own say.
“I’ve always focused on % profits as the only logical way to discuss the issue.”
Hear, hear! P/E ratio ain’t everything…it’s the only thing.
And I heard that buggy-whip manufacturers “reinvented” themselves as selling to more…adult…interests. (Not that there’s anything immature about driving a team of horses, but…)
I’m not a supporter of that idea either.
Folks that claim the oil industry gets outrageous, or unusual tax credits are wrong, obviously.
If you’ll feel better if people complain about the IT industry…the go to an IT forum. This is a forum on CARS. If you don’t like the perfectly acceptable bashing on the oil industry…then Leave. No one’s stopping you.
"I've always focused on % profits as the only logical way to discuss the issue."Hear, hear! P/E ratio ain’t everything…it’s the only thing.
OK…so if percentage as you say is EVERYTHING…then you must be outraged at this.
Notably, 56 percent of the total tax subsidies went to just four industries: financial, utilities, tele-communications, and oil, gas & pipelines.
All you liberals who think this is perfectly acceptable please stand to be counted. True conservatives would NEVER stand for this because they firmly believe that wealth shifting is immoral.
Okay, so my lawn care/handyman business (market cap $3 grand) ought to show XOM-like profits to be “equally profitable?” I like the way you think, but it seems unlikely.
I was recently looking at XOM for my 401k, and it really isn’t earning enough to make my typical cut-off. (Might buy it anyway, because I can’t imagine oil remaining this cheap for 20+ years.
All you liberals who think this is perfectly acceptable please stand to be counted. True conservatives would NEVER stand for this because they firmly believe that wealth shifting is immoral.So...you're telling me that BOTH liberals and conservatives OUGHT to hate these subsidies--but once in office, sell out to the highest bidder? I'm shocked, I say!
I don't identify as "conservative" because their "big ides" are any BETTER than liberals'; I do it because they have FEWER OF THEM. A conservative approach would result in a lower total volume of Big Ideas, and an emaciated government less able to enforce what few regs actually DO pass.
I have to respectfully disagree that fracking is the kiss of death as far as groundwater goes. I live smack dab in the middle of the oil patch and fracking has been going on absolutely everywhere around me for many decades. There has not been one incident of groundwater contamination anywhere near me.
There is one thing that groundwater does have an issue with and that is nitrates; a.k.a fertilizer from farmland runoff.
Fracking is also being blamed for earthquakes here in OK but I’m not so quick to blame fracking for that either. It’s being investigated by the USGS at this time so wait and see.
Right now, the area of OK where I live is Earthquake Central. We’ve had a 1000 or so of them the last couple of years; most being 2.5 to 3.5 on the Richter Scale.
One kind of nasty one a few weeks back (4.0+) lasted for about 13 seconds, dumped a few things, and had the water in my 55 gallon aquarium sloshing badly enough that it was banging the lids on the covers pretty loudly and putting the fish into a panic…
To quote that great American Alfred E. Neuman; “What, me worry?”. 
As to oil company profits, the more the better. That in turn means a lot of people are being employed in the oil field in dozens of ways and making good money at it.
So...you're telling me that BOTH liberals and conservatives OUGHT to hate these subsidies--but once in office, sell out to the highest bidder? I'm shocked, I say!
By DEFINITION of what conservatives preach…Any Subsidies are bad. By DEFINITION of what the conservatives preach…Liberals LOVE handouts/subsidies. If you like Subsidies/handouts…then by the conservative DEFINITION - you’re a Liberal…or a hypocrite.
Yup, and as long as our elected representatives (on both sides) have compromised, hypocritical ethics…may as well vote for the creeps that want to do the least amount of mucking about.
meanjoe75fan: “Yup”. We are politically “circling the drain”. Decades with no candidates I would really choose to vote for (I do vote while holding my nose). My parents were Roosevelt Democrats having married 2 years before the great depression but were very pro personal responsibility. I ended up registering Republican in 1971 but my favorite Presidents are mixed. Truman who called BS on defense contractors. JFK who backed down the USSR. Eisenhower who built the interstates (automotive related), and Reagan who ended the cold war. These Presidents bucked the system and got things done. I could say more but NSA is always watching.
Remember JFK and his ask not what the country can do for you? And his 50 mile hikes that everyone was doing to get fit? That was leadership even though my mom cried when Nixon lost. Yeah he made a lot of mistakes but it was still leadership in the right direction. I don’t particularly like Dr. Phil but he hit the nail on the head a few days ago when he said we have raised a generation of entitled kids. Just talk about free college, equal wages, grants, subsidies, and so on to get votes without ever talking about what this does to the country in the long term.
Time we start being honest. I remember my BIL’s grandson was getting a little pudgy and told him to put his computer down and get outside. What’s the percentage now of kids that are too fat to pass a military physical? Something like 30+ %. And another big percentage due to felonies. Blame sugary soft drinks and MacDonalds? We had that too so instead we make it unacceptable to talk about someone’s weight. My gosh, how far we have fallen.
I’ll vote for the person that instead of offering another free pass, challenges us to take the hard road to turn the country around again. $20 trillion dollar debt and growing daily? Incredible.
I have to respectfully disagree that fracking is the kiss of death as far as groundwater goes. I live smack dab in the middle of the oil patch and fracking has been going on absolutely everywhere around me for many decades. There has not been one incident of groundwater contamination anywhere near me.
I believe that if someone had done a fracking hoax, went through all the motions of fracking, but didn’t actually do anything, there would be people who swear that their water doesn’t taste the same anymore, and news media such as Mother Jones and the HuffPo would gobble up everything they said and report it as absolute truth without any farther fact checking.
Profits ,profits , profits are the cream after everyone has had their good salaries and benefits paid ,I dont feel sorry for Exxon or BP or any of those other (corps " that get fat and sleek off "common heritage " its time to really scrutinize ’ Georgian " economics and make the "landlords " pay their fair share of the rent ,Exxon didnt create the oil or land they spoil ,Hey there are over 7 billion of us now and we would like to have or a least have the opportunity to have a piece of the pie ,not the "Pablum " for the mass 's so they can tax our productivity and maybe if we are real good and produce enough cannon fodder ,we can own a 4x4 and lease a lot off of the Govt .
About these taxes. If we take the federal budget and divide it up equally among the population each man, woman and child would owe $10,200 this year. That’s simple enough. Who needs the IRS?
Yup, and as long as our elected representatives (on both sides) have compromised, hypocritical ethics...may as well vote for the creeps that want to do the least amount of mucking about.
Good thing our countries founders standards weren’t that low.
That was the whole concept behind “checks-n-balances,” Mike. They knew, at some point, avaricious and stupid people would get elected (they didn’t entirely trust the general public)…and they deliberately set the system up so one branch can and would smack down the others’ schemes and incompetence.
The Founding Fathers were skeptics, if not downright cynics (thankfully!)
The Founding Fathers were skeptics, if not downright cynics (thankfully!)
At least their standards were much higher. I for one strive to something greater then what’s currently available.
Consider one of Obama’s chief economic advisors on TV about 3 years ago who was railing on for 5 minutes about “the rich need to pay their fair share”.
The host of the show kept trying to pin her down on the definition of “fair share”.
She balked forever until at one point the host asked, “…25%? 30%? 50%?”.
She then blurted out that “We consider 50% a good place to start”.
Real nice. They want to tax someone at half their income as a START…
The tax rate for the top .1% is way too low. And add to the fact that many of the rich who make over $1million take a modest salary and the rest is paid in stock options which have a much lower rate. Warren Buffet has a lower tax rate then I do.
While 50% may be too high…the current rate is far too low. I like Warren Buffets plan.
Twenty years ago as a garage owner/mechanic I paid 42% federal tax one year. For more than 2 decades I found myself quite successful and the check on April 15 each year was a slap in the face and I too blamed the ‘entitlement loafers’ for the taxes that I paid. Then sometime around the turn of the century I recognized how people with incomes exponentially larger than mine were paying half the rate I paid and they didn’t go home aching each day after 12 hours of manual labor. And those are the people who demand that Social Security be notched up several years. It’s a shame that legislators don’t get in a few weeks of real work each year to keep fresh in their mind what it is.
Efforts to fight the growth of socialistic policies today will surely result in socialism’s rise in coming years and the rise could be cataclysmic. In 30 years Capitalism may be the new Communism.